[Gamblor]

2005 on Raw had not only Cena, but the likes of HHH, Flair, Batista (for the first half), HBK, Angle, and I'm sure I'm missing some.
2006 on Raw had Cena, Edge at his peak as a very strong draw, the return of DX, Vince being in a prominent role throughout the year... so yeah...
2007 on Raw had Cena at his peak in drawing power, HBK, and Orton
2008 on Raw had Cena, Orton, HHH, HBK, and Jericho
2009 on Raw had Cena, Orton at his peak, HHH, and DX in the latter half.

Now I'll give you that 2007 being a great year in the ratings on Raw was down pretty much solely to Cena, especially during the mid-part of the year between Backlash and Summerslam. However 2005, 2006, 2008, and 2009 all had such a strong cast of guys who were at the top of their drawing game that weren't just Cena. 2005 had Batista. 2006 had Edge. 2009 had Orton. Even 2010 had The Nexus angle to help Cena, but the numbers weren't even THAT great there. 2012, Punk had no one. Cena isn't a draw anymore in really a draw anymore in this day and age. Ryback, while showing promise in quarter hours, failed to keep the overall show afloat. And that's it. Rock, Taker, HHH, Lesnar, etc. were all there on Raw for the first few months, and Lesnar/HHH during the summer, but besides that there's no proven full-time draw on the roster anymore. That hasn't happened before as usual there was always one-two big time draws a year to keep ratings up.

[Amuroray]

Originally Posted by The Rawk

2005 on Raw had not only Cena, but the likes of HHH, Flair, Batista (for the first half), HBK, Angle, and I'm sure I'm missing some.
2006 on Raw had Cena, Edge at his peak as a very strong draw, the return of DX, Vince being in a prominent role throughout the year... so yeah...
2007 on Raw had Cena at his peak in drawing power, HBK, and Orton
2008 on Raw had Cena, Orton, HHH, HBK, and Jericho
2009 on Raw had Cena, Orton at his peak, HHH, and DX in the latter half.

Now I'll give you that 2007 being a great year in the ratings on Raw was down pretty much solely to Cena, especially during the mid-part of the year between Backlash and Summerslam. However 2005, 2006, 2008, and 2009 all had such a strong cast of guys who were at the top of their drawing game that weren't just Cena. 2005 had Batista. 2006 had Edge. 2009 had Orton. Even 2010 had The Nexus angle to help Cena, but the numbers weren't even THAT great there. 2012, Punk had no one. Cena isn't a draw anymore in really a draw anymore in this day and age. Ryback, while showing promise in quarter hours, failed to keep the overall show afloat. And that's it. Rock, Taker, HHH, Lesnar, etc. were all there on Raw for the first few months, and Lesnar/HHH during the summer, but besides that there's no proven full-time draw on the roster anymore. That hasn't happened before as usual there was always one-two big time draws a year to keep ratings up.

Cena was the biggest star on all brands since 05. Maybe Batista for the first part of 05 but then on in its been all cena. He outsold everybody in shirts etc BY A LONG WAY during this time.

Cena was the FACE of the wwe for 6 years and drew great numbers. Out of all the big guys you mentioned cena was higher then them all during this period. Cena got 10 title reigns during this period with one being over a year ffs.

He carried the show. HHH AND Stephanie has admitted as much. He is a great draw and will go down as on of the best in history.

Punk can never match this. Orton did for a period and so has Batista and edge. Punk doesnt have main stream appeal.

You cant see me was made popular by cena. Cena is one of the 4 biggest stars in the history of the business. Rock has admitted as such. Cena is on cereal boxes etc.

Cena caused a bump in the rating in 05 with Batista aswell from 04.

[Gamblor]

Cena could've been the biggest draw all of those years, and I'm not gonna deny it. My point is he had other big draws/guys at their peaks to assist/keep the ratings afloat on the red-brand. It wasn't just him except maybe in 2007, which I addressed in my post. Punk doesn't/didn't have anyone. He didn't have anyone to put him over besides HHH, who really didn't. And Cena of course, but that led to nothing. He doesn't have a full-time draw to assist him/make him and even Cena isn't a real draw anymore. Who knows how Edge would've done without Cena being a big draw in 2006. Or Orton without Cena being a big draw in 2009 (past the whole McMahons storyline leading into Mania).

[SerapisLiber]

Originally Posted by Amuroray

Just looked at cenas 2005, 2006 and 2007 and 09 numbers. His years drew stupidly high numbers. 2011 and 12 were still great for him in the ratings.

So did orton in 2008,2009 and 2010. Batista and edge drew great. Punk is pathetic.

Ah, good, then you also saw how since 2006 there has been a downward trend in the annual ratings.

As per Gerweck:
2005- 3.81
2006- 3.90
2007- 3.61
2008- 3.27
2009- 3.57
2010- 3.28
2011- 3.21
2012- 3.00

And that downward trend took a sharp curve with the move to 3 hours.

Ratings were already going down before the shift of focus onto Punk.

Yet PPVS this year are up. I haven't heard any reports of house shows or merchandise being down. Business isn't suffering with the belt on Punk.

It seems only the FREE tv is where there has been a decline, and long before Punk and therefore cannot be blamed on Punk.

And as has been said in these threads time & again, there's other factors as well. Notice the trend began in 2006, when Youtube got mainstream exposure and video hosting sites exploded. I remember MTV saying that was the main catalyst for the death of TRL. People can watch shit for free on the web. Video killed the radio star, but Internet killed the videos star. Hell, it's better that way, then they don't have to sit through 3 hours. TV, though it's still got some fight in it, is a dying medium.

[Choke2Death]

Ratings average went up in 2009 from 2008. Cena was not prominent at all in 08 and away injured on two occasions. In 09, he was the most prominent guy on Raw along with Orton. Therefore, he showed his drawing abilities there.

Also numbers have been going down steadily since 2002 but when Cena and Batista were established as top guys, WWE found their draws after a long search since Austin and Rock departed.

[Amuroray]

Originally Posted by SerapisLiber

Ah, good, then you also saw how since 2006 there has been a downward trend in the annual ratings.

As per Gerweck:
2005- 3.81
2006- 3.90
2007- 3.61
2008- 3.27
2009- 3.57
2010- 3.28
2011- 3.21
2012- 3.00

And that downward trend took a sharp curve with the move to 3 hours.

Ratings were already going down before the shift of focus onto Punk.

Yet PPVS this year are up. I haven't heard any reports of house shows or merchandise being down. Business isn't suffering with the belt on Punk.

It seems only the FREE tv is where there has been a decline, and long before Punk and therefore cannot be blamed on Punk.

And has been said in these threads time & again, there's other factors as well. Notice the trend began in 2006, when Youtube got mainstream exposure and video hosting sites exploded. I remember MTV saying that was the main catalyst for the death of TRL. People can watch shit for free on the web. Video killed the radio star, but Internet killed the videos star. Hell, it's better than way, then they don't have to sit through 3 hours. TV, though it's still got some fight in it, is a dying medium.

05-2011 was around the same high level with cena. He turned the trend around from the downward spiral since the end of the AE. Made more money then anybody for the company


PPvs this year has been about cena. Raws have been about punk.

Cena is one of the 4 stars in the history of the business.

Punk is nowhere.

Thats it. Punk is the lowest drawing champ since 97. YOU CANT ARGUE IT.

[purple_gloves]

Originally Posted by Amuroray

05-2011 was around the same high level with cena. He turned the trend around from the downward spiral since the end of the AE. Made more money then anybody for the company


PPvs this year has been about cena. Raws have been about punk.

Cena is one of the 4 stars in the history of the business.

Punk is nowhere.

Thats it. Punk is the lowest drawing champ since 97. YOU CANT ARGUE IT.

Exactly. That's why you can't compare him to Punk. One man draws like Cena, are extremely rare. I don't think anybody is claiming that Punk is on the same level as Cena. But you, along with others, are allowing your dislike of CM Punk, to cloud any common sense. Are you really that stupid to believe that the low ratings are solely down to Punk being champ?

The roster is shit compared to what it was in all of those "Cena years". Right now is the worst possible time for anybody to be champ and be expected to draw.

[dxbender]

How much do people think that timezones plays a noticeable difference in tv ratings for Raw? Since it airs live, it airs 8-11pmEST(compared to most shows that air in primetime,which just air ___pm local time)

So 8-11pm LIVE for WWE is 5-8pm LIVE for California. How many people even watch TV from 5-7pm? Not much. Which is why primetime TV is so big, cause that's when everyone is watching.

California alone is 38M people, I think the entire west coast(meaning PST timezone) is probably like 50+M people? So WWE each week for Raw isn't reaching like 10-15% of people who watch TV in USA. Imagine how many more people would actually be watching Raw if it aired 8-11pm LOCAL TIME. It's the same reason you see sports games in west coast starting at 10pmEST. Cause they're caring about west coast viewers only. I think WWE could have 1-2M extra viewers if it aired at a better time in west coast.

[SerapisLiber]

Not really, the time zone discrepancy was still there during the Monday Night Wars when ratings had reached their pinnacle.

[BlakeGriffinFan32]

Originally Posted by Amuroray

05-2011 was around the same high level with cena. He turned the trend around from the downward spiral since the end of the AE. Made more money then anybody for the company


PPvs this year has been about cena. Raws have been about punk.

Cena is one of the 4 stars in the history of the business.

Punk is nowhere.

Thats it. Punk is the lowest drawing champ since 97. YOU CANT ARGUE IT.

Ratings =/= quality. I have enjoyed both of Punk's reigns. It's been a very long time since I enjoyed something Cena did. I disagree he one of the top four stars in the history of the business. He is up there but I still think he has more to go. Punk is climbing the ranks too and I think he will be big enough to headline a Hall of Fame class once it's all said and done.