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post #41 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 06:40 PM
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Re: I hate WWE right now.

I'm just gonna go ahead and blame AJ Lee and Charlie Sheen.
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post #42 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 07:43 PM
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Re: I hate WWE right now.

I watch wwe every week and I agree that the product is not very good but who am I to complain about ratings etc? I'm not american, I download it everyweek and past forward good parts of the sho.w, but I don't hate wwe, I like it.
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post #43 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 09:07 PM
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Re: I hate WWE right now.

Originally Posted by Walk-In View Post
There are so many problems right now that I can't even narrow them down to decide which ones are the "big" ones worthy of talking about. After awhile, all of the "little" problems start to add up too. When compounded with the big, glaring faults, it gets pretty damn frustrating.
Agreed. The truth is there are just so many things wrong with today's product that it becomes virtually impossible to pinpoint it to just one specific thing. It's everything. Literally everything.

However if I absolutely had to put it into words, it all started with the gradual transformation from wrestling program to variety show. That's all the WWE is now. It's a traveling variety show. It's not even a soap opera anymore because that would imply continuity. There is none. What matters now won't matter a month and a half from now, and what matters now really won't matter three months from now. Don't even bother looking ahead six months because it might as well not have happened at all. All that matters is what's going on THIS month. Which superstars are being featured THIS month. Which superstars are they behind THIS month. Which catchphrases are over THIS month. What DVD they're selling THIS month. What new social media affiliate they're promoting THIS month. And on and on it goes. The only thing you can be certain of is that Michael Cole will be there to spew the propaganda and rewrite history from week to week so it won't matter anyways.

And most importantly it's obvious they don't care. That's the heart of the matter right there. They just don't care. For christ sakes they wasted everyone's time for close to a year with the mystery GM bullshit. We all knew they didn't know what the fuck they were doing. We all knew they were playing it by ear. And of course... there was no answer. And you know boiling it down to just one angle would be an injustice. I'm just merely using that specific one as an example. If that doesn't show you just how little they give a shit, I don't know what does. It's gotten to the point where I picture them writing episodes of RAW on the back of a bar napkin the night before after a drunken stupor. And what's worse, Vince is allowing it.

They're a sinking ship. Sadly, they're beyond the point of plugging holes. They need to tear it down and rebuild before it's too late and before no one gives a shit at all. And if you don't believe me, just check the numbers. It's happening as we speak.
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post #44 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: I hate WWE right now.

Originally Posted by waveofthefuture View Post
AGAIN you being a d bryan fan need to be HAPPPY yes has came along cause he is move merch and you have shirts to buy.. You complaining about shitt that is positive for your characters cause people can only be one one for so long
But I don't want this Daniel Bryan, I want the old one. The old one was much cooler and I'm sure everyone will agree. I'm not appreciating his popularity, because he should be popular based on talent ALONE. He's a former World Champion, he doesn't need all this baggage to be a main eventer. Give me 2010 Daniel Bryan back.

Originally Posted by x iCame2Play x View Post
If you don't like it, then dont watch it. Simple as that.
you're original.

Originally Posted by SinJackal View Post
lol. Did you really go back and look at every technical wrestler in WWE history, compare and contrast, then say hmmm yes, Daniel Bryan is indeed better than everyone else? I seriously doubt it because there's no way you could've come to that conclusion. Best technical wrestler in WWE now? Sure, maybe. In WWE history? No way. I like the dude, but why're you massively overrating him to such a gargantuan extent?

While we're at it: Kobe isn't better than Jordan. Lemiuex wasn't better than Gretzky. Howard isn't even close to Olajuwon and Shaq, or even Ewing and Robinson. And Miguel Cabrera is worse than dozens of players in the past.

That latest best isn't always the best ever. In fact, that's rarely the case.
Bryan is just as good as any past technical wrestler.


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post #45 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 11:58 PM
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Re: I hate WWE right now.

Originally Posted by sharkboy22 View Post
The originality seems to be overflowing in this thread!

Is this the first "The current product sucks!" thread of the year?
....And right on queue. Just stop it Vince. People are allowed to have a negative opinion about your company.
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post #46 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 12:04 AM
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Re: I hate WWE right now.

Originally Posted by Berzerker's Beard View Post
However if I absolutely had to put it into words, it all started with the gradual transformation from wrestling program to variety show. That's all the WWE is now. It's a traveling variety show. It's not even a soap opera anymore because that would imply continuity. There is none.
This is true. I think a lot of the "faults" of WWE are not the talking points that so many, including people like WrestlingJesusYT, seem to get caught-up on.

As an example, the television shows being rated TV-PG does not have anything to do with the quality of the product. Contrary to popular belief, just adding weapon shots to the head, blood, cussing or women parading around in skimpy outfits will not suddenly improve a boring, bland & dull product. No, quite the contrary. It would just be a boring, bland & dull product that you would be embarrassed to watch with your significant other. If the modern era rating system was incorporated back during the Hulk Hogan WWF era, it would have been rated TV-PG. WCW Nitro, during their biggest period, were rated TV-PG. It can definitely be argued that what a PG rating means in 2013 might be lost on some people in WWE, that is true, but the rating itself is not the problem.

There was a lot of unjust blame falling onto the Linda McMahon senate campaign as if that affected negatively the on-air product. Well, now that campaign is over. It certainly did not improve the month of December. I am tired of all of the excuses from WWE apologists. Oh, well it's Christmas. Oh, well it's New Year's Eve. Oh, well it's a taped show. Oh, well they were head-to-head with Monday Night Football. There is a different excuse literally every single Monday. "Just stop watching!" "Just download it or DVR it & fast forward through the show!" Those "solutions" do not make the show(s) any better. All that means is more people walk away & WWE sinks for good. Then what is everyone going to watch?

It's not the TV rating that is the problem. It's not Linda McMahon's senate campaign that is the problem. It is not WWE being a publicly traded company that is the problem. It is not a contract with Mattel. The problem is simple: apathy. In a word, that is the problem. Everyone is apathetic. The fans are apathetic. Either because of over-saturation from there being WAY too much WWE product available (RAW, Smackdown, NXT, Superstars, Saturday Morning Slam, Main Event & Pay-Per-Views) or because of lackluster effort from the shows that the fans do watch. The roster is apathetic. Either because of the grind from being on the road, or from a lack of being used, or from a lack of being pushed. It's a bunch of guys just phoning it in, one person not standing out from the next. They might as well be named by number. The creative teams are completely apathetic. There is no continuity (as Berzerker's Beard noted). You can not differentiate one show from the next. They stick to the same format, the same script, for every single show & never differentiate from the norm. You're getting an opening twenty minute in-ring promo. You're getting a heel authority figure screwing over babyfaces to set-up last minute matches to fill up the TV time. You get the same thing every week in the same slot every week with the same people every week. Then every third Sunday or so, they want you to pay $50 to see that AGAIN. It is insulting.

Even the commentators are apathetic. Where is the enthusiasm? Where is the interest in the matches going on? Where is the pride at getting better at your job? Does Michael Cole know the name of a single professional wrestling move unless it is a WWE created name that they can trademark? Does he know what a Boston Crab is, or is it just a "Walls of Jericho" because that's all he knows?

From the bottom to the top, from in front of the curtain to behind the curtain, from one city to the next, it's just complete apathy in every single direction, in every corner, from every person. Nothing feels organic, or natural, nothing feels fun, nothing stands out. It's like working on the same math problem for three hours every Monday and when the show ends, you still didn't solve the answer.
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post #47 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 02:12 AM
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Re: I hate WWE right now.

I feel like the WWE is doing some stuff well, and some really, really badly.

This is going to be a long ass post (I think), so bear with me. I'm hoping you'll read it just so i could get some feedback/conversation going.

I've been watching the product for a while, and naturally, I'm kind of hazy on the previous eras. I remember many big moments, but I'm not that familiar with how the wrestlers were characterized in the Attitude Era compared to the Era now. I do have a general idea though.

The Good

- The show is great for kids. If they're trying to market this show specifically to kids, then they have a bunch of kid friendly heroes doing some generally fun acrobatic stuff. Of course, with things like AJ/Ziggler making out, it's becoming a little less 'tame', but it's still pretty good for the child audience. Then again, that spells 'bad' for us, most of the time.

- Wrestling quality: Yeah, it's not amazing all the time, but we're going to witness at least one or two good/great matches per pay-per-view. The roster is surprisingly deep in wrestling talent. In fact, I'd say that this era is probably as high as the WWE can ever possibly get with good wrestlers.

- The Shield: Yes, these guys deserve their own little shout-out. Every time these guys come through the arena, that tiny 'Attitude Era' feeling comes back. The feeling where the audience is actually into it, and there's an air of unpredictability. Yes, they most of the time beat the same people up, but at least they do it with finesse.

At this very second, I can't think of many other things that are very good, so I'll leave it at that. Things like the mic work of certain wrestlers (Punk), the video-editing work by the truck monkeys (also fantastic), and the occasional great moment are a given.


(If you're going to read any part, read this):


Storytelling is something that the WWE is amazingly bad at. Seriously. Storytelling is absolutely KEY to a good product. Mick Foley once said: "A bad wrestler can get off on a good angle much better than a good wrestler can get off on a bad angle."

That summarizes this product. The angles are so damn DULL, they are so damn PREDICTABLE, and they are marked by this backward carnival culture that is predominant in the WWE locker room. I don't want to speak in exaggerations and hypothetical scenarios, but the McMahon's seem like pretty wretched people. The fact that there is a hierarchy backstage, and the fact that a LOT of horror stories have come out regarding backstage in the WWE is enough of an indication that the WWE (either the writers or the people on top) aren't always concerned with giving the best product.

This shines through when you look at the 'punishments' various wrestlers get on air for screwing up in some way shape or form. Getting jobbed out, or having Cena literally bury you (Dolph Ziggler, way to kill his heat in ten minutes).

It is with this that I have to reiterate that THE WWE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND STORYTELLING 101.

I could spend hours talking about this, but I'll try to simplify it as much as possible.

Would you really want to cheer for any superhero that rarely (if ever) faces his threat, and if he does, makes that threat look like absolute garbage, before conquering?

I understand that top faces like Cena have faced 'half' losses, but these losses rarely (if ever) mean anything, and are always cheapened by verbal burials that the winners face a day or two later.

Does Cena ever feel like a real, believable character to you? Can you relate to a guy that can generally beat anyone (kayfabe), and stands by the mantra of wearing jean shorts and accepting that he is dorky? I'd believe Cena if he was a dorky wrestler that had some potential. I'd believe him if he was a muscle-bound jock with a soft side. I'd believe him if he was aware of some REAL, ACTUAL flaws in his own character. I know that you can reply to this whole post with "I think you're taking wrestling too seriously," but so be it. There are so many ways to make a great, understandable character that you can root for.

People rooted for Punk because he was a real underdog (at the time) that was clearly flawed (at the time) but was also aware of his shortcomings and was generally a guy that could both win and not win. When Cena says "Hey I'm going for the WWE title now!", he doesn't seem like a character that wants to win the title. He instead seems like a calendar date on the WWE schedule, where Vince suddenly says "Hey Cena hasn't had the title for a while! Let's have him want it again."

Back when I was watching in 2005, I remember looking at Randy Orton and going "Damn, that guy's a two-time World Champion. That's pretty awesome."

I'm not how exactly they did it, but a title win feels so cheap and honestly pointless at this point in time. They've devalued it by making it look like a side piece, rather than the focal point of a feud.

They've devalued feuds and character development by having wrestlers fight over literally nothing. Intercontinental Title feuds between Kofi and Wade mean literally nothing, and I honestly doubt that many people think to the contrary. The WWE is filled with so much stuff that even they probably recognize as 'filler', when there's dozens of people that would probably love to make an amazing product and fill it up with minutes of great promos, wrestling, and actual storylines.

These thoughts were really scattered, but I hope that someone caught the jist of what I mean. There's just so much wrong with the way they tell stories. The stories are bland, and the 'good guys' are giant juggernauts that (most of the time) have nothing to worry about. If a Batman movie consisted of him beating the fuck out of everyone, with little to no sense of losing, would you really want to watch the sequel?

I wouldn't, that's for sure. I've been disconnected from watching the WWE for a while, but I still tune in every now and then. I feel like the people that tune in to see that Rock are just as interested in how the stories of the wrestlers in the Attitude Era were told, as they are with the actual wrestlers themselves. At least for those characters, it's impossible to keep them chained by this new way of storytelling, although I'm sure the WWE will find a way to ruin even that.
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post #48 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 03:24 AM
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Re: I hate WWE right now.

Originally Posted by Trumpet Thief View Post
When Cena says "Hey I'm going for the WWE title now!", he doesn't seem like a character that wants to win the title. He instead seems like a calendar date on the WWE schedule, where Vince suddenly says "Hey Cena hasn't had the title for a while! Let's have him want it again."
This is so true & I think ties-in with my point about how the roster just feels like a bunch of guys that could have numbers instead of names. Nothing feels real. It's not just the death of kayfabe but WWE constantly beating us over the head with how it's all not real. There's no reason to buy into any of the characters. It does not feel like anyone on the roster is trying to improve or is struggling to overcome. It feels like a bunch of dudes that are waiting for management to tell them that it is their time to win. I mean from an on-screen perspective even.

A lot of it is because WWE constantly shoot themselves in the foot with crap like comedy all the time. Comedy has a place in wrestling but that place is not at the top of the card with the names that you're trying to draw with. When you have a guy like Sheamus fighting for the World Title it does not do anything for your top heel or the title itself when you have him come out after losing the title & crack jokes. That just makes it all seem like it doesn't matter. John Cena does it all the time too. If the top prize doesn't matter, then why are we watching the show? Why would we pay for it?

The beauty of pro-wrestling & what sets it apart from other sports, is that it's a work. That should be a positive, not a negative. In MMA, as an example, you don't know if a fight is going to be good or bad. It's a shoot, it could end in a flash KO, it could end in a 5-round stinker. In pro-wrestling, you should never have to worry about that because you can fabricate the drama. You still have to build-up the characters & the match to get to that point though. That is where the WWE fails in the Storytelling 101 department. UFC does pro-wrestling better than WWE does. Take a couple dynamic personalities, have them talk shit about one another, give them a reason to fight, then charge for the fight. That's it. That's pro-wrestling in a nutshell. WWE can't even do that anymore.
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post #49 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 03:30 AM
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Re: I hate WWE right now.

Couldnt agree more. just a clip to describe the situation i feel sums it up well


Tonight, we have a chance to say, 'Yeah, you're right. We're too extreme. We're too wild. We're too out of control. We're too full of our own shit.' Or we have a chance to say, 'Hey, fuck you, you're wrong! Fuck you, we're right!' Because you have all made it to the dance. 'Cause believe me, this is the dance! "
- Paul Heyman, One of the Few True Wrestling Geniuses of Our Time

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post #50 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 10:57 AM
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Re: I hate WWE right now.

Imagine watching pre-season sports year round. That's the WWE. Every. Single. Match feels like an exhibition. There's never anything at stake. There are never any consequences. Whether it's the opening match of RAW or the main event to fuckin Wrestlemania.... nothing. ever. matters. John Cena lost to The Rock in what was believed to be the biggest match of his career and the next night he's carrying on as usual as if the match didn't even happen. By the next week he's already into it with Brock Lesnar and the entire year buildup with Rock may not as well have even happened. It didn't build to anything whatsoever.

Matches exist solely to fill up time these days. That's really their only purpose. It's sad because the truth is these guys are talented and they do put on good matches but no one - myself included - gives a flying fuck. No one's going to remember that classic quadruple overtime preseason game between the Knicks and the Bulls. It's just another game.
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