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Old 01-02-2013, 07:31 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here comes another Cena heel turn thread

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Originally Posted by ROGERTHAT21 View Post
That's a stupid post because the guy is a great wrestler. And a heel Cena will get cheered. Heel Punk and heel Ziggler get cheered and he's got better mic skills, FAR more charisma, and is almost as good a worker as they are. You can't just ignore all the good matches Cena has had this year, last year, and every year before that and then say he can't wrestle. That's insanely ignorant.


I was going to post the video of him kneeing himself in the face attempting a monkey flip from TLC but the hospital WIFI sucks and I'm tired, so, use your imagination. It's clearly quite vivid.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:02 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here comes another Cena heel turn thread

Cena is never turning heel.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:45 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here comes another Cena heel turn thread

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Originally Posted by Avon Barksdale View Post
Can you please explain to me how Cena is a massive draw? Don't use merchandise, because Punk's first best in the world t shirt was outselling Cena's and The Rock's merchandise was outselling his too. Explain the ratings too, all he does at best is keep them average. During many of his so called "headlined" wrestlemanias, he wasn't even the main draw. Let's look at the facts

Wrestlemania 21- Cena vs JBL. Triple H and Batista were the main draws and Hogan being inducted. Expected
Wrestlemania 22- Cena vs Triple H. Cena and Triple H were actually the main draws.
Wrestlemania 23- Cena vs HBK. Main evented, but played second fiddle to Donald Trump and Vince
Wrestlemania 24- Cena vs Orton vs Triple H. Mayweather and Big Show were the main draws (no surprise)
Wrestlemania 25- Cena vs Edge vs Big Show. Main draws were Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and the Undertaker
Wrestlemania 26- Cena vs Batista- This should be the main draw, but it wasn't. Taker vs HBK II was.
Wrestlemania 27- Cena vs Miz- The Rock as a fucking host was the main draw.
Wrestlemania 28- Cena vs Rock- Once again Rock was the main draw, but I'll give Cena credit, he was a big reason the wwe had the most ppv buys in history. But it was more of the generation vs generation match that sold.

Looks like every wrestlemania needed an outsider or attitude era legend (Triple H, HBK, and Taker) to sell the damn ppv. So once again, can someone please explain to me how the fuck Cena is a MASSIVE DRAW? And don't come at me with the merchandise bullshit, with today's active roster, he only has to outsell Punk, Shaemus, Ziggler, and Ryback. How impressive.

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Old 01-02-2013, 09:58 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here comes another Cena heel turn thread

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Originally Posted by KeepinItReal View Post
I'm not saying he's as good as the Rock, I'm saying he's pretty much as popular as he was. Major ratings draw, but not as big as Hogan or Austin. If I'm wrong I'd like to hear it, but I think only Hogan or Austin are in a higher category then the other major stars from the modern era. I don't mean to insult anyone by comparison to Cena; HBK and Hart were incredible, but like Cena, they were the big stars during mediocre years for the company. Rock was there when it was really popular, but only because of Austin; the ratings drop which we continue to suffer through today began right around when Austin got his big back injury in November 1999.

Yeah, that's true, I can't say I know he's a nice guy. But I do think he does a great job of realistically playing a nice guy, and realism is all you can ask for in wrestling. The fact that older fans don't like Cena doesn't change the fact that he's doing a great job of playing a very popular character.
Um...What?? Dude where have you been the last 12 years?

Cena as Popular as Rock? LMFAO. People tried to make this argument like 5 years ago, but as we saw, when a dude who appears 7 years later is more over than your top face of the company and helps push mania to back to back million buyrates, and is basically destroyed, DESTROYED by the crowd during live segments when in the ring with the Rock (do i even need to mention the Survivor Series tag match in NYC?), i think that says something. Cena's only and i mean only moment where the crowd was even remotely on his side was when he was in Boston (his "hometown") and he got those barely audible tooth fairy chants. That's IT. If Cena was so huge Vince wouldn't need to bring back Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, Y2J, Brock Lesnar and other Attitude Era/Ruthless Aggression (in reference to Lesnar) stars every year to help with the product.

Hogan, Austin, and Rock, in terms of success and globalizing the WWE product, overness, known mannerisms, catchphrases, ratings, having mainstream success, everything are in a class by themselves, period. It's been done to death over the years to the point where there's basically no argument.

Cena is top 10, and maybe even bordering top 5 but then you've got the other tier of Flair (could easily be argued as 4th or 5th), Andre the Giant (starting to wane, but nonetheless still huge).

And to the whole Rock wouldn't be as popular without Austin leaving for surgery argument. There is countless proof that in Sept-Nov 99, the Rock was basically neck and neck with Austin, even with clear indications of him beginning to surpass Austin with popularity and overness among fans. Don't believe it? Check out a host of evidence I took from a thread at wrestlzone:

1. Unforgiven 1999 6 pack challenge-Fans were chanting only for The Rock all throughout the match. Austin didn't wrestle but he didn't have to, there were times fans chanted for Austin when he wasn't in the ring wrestling.

2. Raw is War following night-HHH hits Rock with a chair and taunts Austin, fans chant The Rock's name despite the fact HHH is taunting Austin.

3. Raw after No Mercy 1999-Austin and Rock have a confrontation and Austin and Rock are about to go at it, the crowd was clearly more on The Rock's side.

4. Raw where they teamed up against New Age Outlaws-Fans only chant for The Rock throughout the match, despite the fact that there were no heels during the match (NAO turned heel afterwards).

5. Smackdown where Arnold Schwarzenegger guest appeared-Fans only chant for The Rock throughout the match, Austin didn't wrestle but like with the 1st example, he didn't have to.

They didn't even mention when Austin's name was booed in a raw in DC a few weeks before Survivor Series 99.

I'll even give you one of the links to the Raw after No Mercy 99.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juaCT...e_gdata_player <<< JERRY LAWLER EVEN MAKES A REFERENCE TO HOW THE CROWD WAS CHANTING THE ROCKS NAME AS HE IS ABOUT TO FIGHT AUSTIN. JIM ROSS DOESN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE IT.

Austin had been face since Summer 1997, and was still strong from his peak of 1998. Rock had a brief #2 face spot in 98 before turning heel and turned back to face the night after Backlash 99. This is a mere 5 months later. THAT's how over the Rock was getting as a face.

If anything it was great that Austin left, cause he was getting stale and was in serious serious danger of getting completley overtaken.

So to the all the arguments and delusional fans butthurt over Rock leaving saying that had Austin never have left he wouldn't be big, just stop it and move on. Austin is a legend, Rock is a legend, both at their peaks make Cena's 8 years on top look like their not even in the same league.

If anything Cena's character is a failed Rock and Austin and Hogan; a forced hybrid of all three and a "mainstream" star Vince wants but didn't get, so he relies on The Rock to help his own damn product.

The ONLY thing i'll give John Cena is his make a wish record and the fact that "You Can't See Me" mannerism is VERY well known. That's it.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:05 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Cena will never EVER turn heel. I'm con 'd

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Old 01-02-2013, 11:05 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here comes another Cena heel turn thread

So he would become a face to the older fans and a heel to the younger fans. Essentially the ol' switcheroo with the current just in our direction?

I like it.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:26 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here comes another Cena heel turn thread

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Originally Posted by Avon Barksdale View Post
Can you please explain to me how Cena is a massive draw? Don't use merchandise, because Punk's first best in the world t shirt was outselling Cena's and The Rock's merchandise was outselling his too. Explain the ratings too, all he does at best is keep them average. During many of his so called "headlined" wrestlemanias, he wasn't even the main draw. Let's look at the facts

Wrestlemania 21- Cena vs JBL. Triple H and Batista were the main draws and Hogan being inducted. Expected
Wrestlemania 22- Cena vs Triple H. Cena and Triple H were actually the main draws.
Wrestlemania 23- Cena vs HBK. Main evented, but played second fiddle to Donald Trump and Vince
Wrestlemania 24- Cena vs Orton vs Triple H. Mayweather and Big Show were the main draws (no surprise)
Wrestlemania 25- Cena vs Edge vs Big Show. Main draws were Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and the Undertaker
Wrestlemania 26- Cena vs Batista- This should be the main draw, but it wasn't. Taker vs HBK II was.
Wrestlemania 27- Cena vs Miz- The Rock as a fucking host was the main draw.
Wrestlemania 28- Cena vs Rock- Once again Rock was the main draw, but I'll give Cena credit, he was a big reason the wwe had the most ppv buys in history. But it was more of the generation vs generation match that sold.

Looks like every wrestlemania needed an outsider or attitude era legend (Triple H, HBK, and Taker) to sell the damn ppv. So once again, can someone please explain to me how the fuck Cena is a MASSIVE DRAW? And don't come at me with the merchandise bullshit, with today's active roster, he only has to outsell Punk, Shaemus, Ziggler, and Ryback. How impressive.
finally somebody said it
cena only sells t-shirts to kiddies who don't know any better

wrestlemania the past several years always needed other big names, older name to help out, if cena was so dam big shouldn't he draw himself, like hogan did in early wrestlemania's, rock/austin never needed any main event help to draw, they were the focus clear main event

so what does cena really do, he outsells ryback and other mid carders in merchandise, ummmmmmmm ok

as much as vince and the wwe wants to send out there propaganda, how cena is rock/austin/hogan, its not reality

cena never created a boom period, he did the opposite

and FYI rock is coming back to be the top draw at another wrestlemania this year
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:02 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here comes another Cena heel turn thread

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Originally Posted by chucky101 View Post
and FYI rock is coming back to be the top draw at another wrestlemania this year
lol my point exactly, once again the WWE is not using any of their current stars to sell wrestlemania this year. Not only will the Rock be a draw, but they're gonna be using Brock Lesnar, and Triple and Undertaker once more.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:12 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here comes another Cena heel turn thread

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Originally Posted by The Main Headliner View Post
Um...What?? Dude where have you been the last 12 years?

Cena as Popular as Rock? LMFAO. People tried to make this argument like 5 years ago, but as we saw, when a dude who appears 7 years later is more over than your top face of the company and helps push mania to back to back million buyrates, and is basically destroyed, DESTROYED by the crowd during live segments when in the ring with the Rock (do i even need to mention the Survivor Series tag match in NYC?), i think that says something. Cena's only and i mean only moment where the crowd was even remotely on his side was when he was in Boston (his "hometown") and he got those barely audible tooth fairy chants. That's IT. If Cena was so huge Vince wouldn't need to bring back Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, Y2J, Brock Lesnar and other Attitude Era/Ruthless Aggression (in reference to Lesnar) stars every year to help with the product.

Hogan, Austin, and Rock, in terms of success and globalizing the WWE product, overness, known mannerisms, catchphrases, ratings, having mainstream success, everything are in a class by themselves, period. It's been done to death over the years to the point where there's basically no argument.

Cena is top 10, and maybe even bordering top 5 but then you've got the other tier of Flair (could easily be argued as 4th or 5th), Andre the Giant (starting to wane, but nonetheless still huge).

And to the whole Rock wouldn't be as popular without Austin leaving for surgery argument. There is countless proof that in Sept-Nov 99, the Rock was basically neck and neck with Austin, even with clear indications of him beginning to surpass Austin with popularity and overness among fans. Don't believe it? Check out a host of evidence I took from a thread at wrestlzone:

1. Unforgiven 1999 6 pack challenge-Fans were chanting only for The Rock all throughout the match. Austin didn't wrestle but he didn't have to, there were times fans chanted for Austin when he wasn't in the ring wrestling.

2. Raw is War following night-HHH hits Rock with a chair and taunts Austin, fans chant The Rock's name despite the fact HHH is taunting Austin.

3. Raw after No Mercy 1999-Austin and Rock have a confrontation and Austin and Rock are about to go at it, the crowd was clearly more on The Rock's side.

4. Raw where they teamed up against New Age Outlaws-Fans only chant for The Rock throughout the match, despite the fact that there were no heels during the match (NAO turned heel afterwards).

5. Smackdown where Arnold Schwarzenegger guest appeared-Fans only chant for The Rock throughout the match, Austin didn't wrestle but like with the 1st example, he didn't have to.

They didn't even mention when Austin's name was booed in a raw in DC a few weeks before Survivor Series 99.

I'll even give you one of the links to the Raw after No Mercy 99.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juaCT...e_gdata_player <<< JERRY LAWLER EVEN MAKES A REFERENCE TO HOW THE CROWD WAS CHANTING THE ROCKS NAME AS HE IS ABOUT TO FIGHT AUSTIN. JIM ROSS DOESN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE IT.

Austin had been face since Summer 1997, and was still strong from his peak of 1998. Rock had a brief #2 face spot in 98 before turning heel and turned back to face the night after Backlash 99. This is a mere 5 months later. THAT's how over the Rock was getting as a face.

If anything it was great that Austin left, cause he was getting stale and was in serious serious danger of getting completley overtaken.

So to the all the arguments and delusional fans butthurt over Rock leaving saying that had Austin never have left he wouldn't be big, just stop it and move on. Austin is a legend, Rock is a legend, both at their peaks make Cena's 8 years on top look like their not even in the same league.

If anything Cena's character is a failed Rock and Austin and Hogan; a forced hybrid of all three and a "mainstream" star Vince wants but didn't get, so he relies on The Rock to help his own damn product.

The ONLY thing i'll give John Cena is his make a wish record and the fact that "You Can't See Me" mannerism is VERY well known. That's it.
This is actually ownage right here. You pretty much described how Cena is not as big as he's made out to be and how big Rock actually was and still is. At 4:32 in that video how he just subtly predicts that the fans will chant Rocky, Cena could NEVER do anything like that. If Cena tried anything like that he'd either get a little bit of kiddie cheers, booed, or crickets. But he would just play it off with his smirk. I never look at The Rock as #2 in the attitude era, him and Austin were 1A and 1B. How can you call a guy who broke attendance records, ppv buys, ratings, highest segments, etc #2? And a guy that just picked up the ball for Austin and ran with it in late 99 and 2000?
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:14 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here comes another Cena heel turn thread

I'd still wanna know why you people think he's guaranteed to be cheered by adults as a heel. Edge wasn't. Hogan in the nWo wasn't(fans were into Hall/Nash). HHH while he sometimes got a bayface pop during his entrance he was still booed by everyone afterwards.
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