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Old 11-16-2012, 12:22 PM   #801 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

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Originally Posted by Logic View Post
Now I know everyone that claims they know the business say Linda's campaign and WWE programming aren't connecting - but I can guarantee that they wouldn't have done this segment prior to Election Day (thus WWE definetly played it a bit safer when she was running).
I think that the product has been so user-safe lately that people have forgotten just how the WWE can really be and now the product can go on with less restrictions on it. I don't necessarily think that there should be another attitude era, or that the show should be rated R, but this is the first real thing catching attention I've seen happen since Lesnar came back. Some small interesting things have occurred here and there, but nothing as impacting.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:47 PM   #802 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

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Originally Posted by #Mark View Post
The backlash they're receiving justifies why they should never be edgy again. People are so easily offended nowadays.
What backlash?
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You fucking politically correct morons are quick to defend WWE for every pussy ass decision they make, but complain about the show lacking attitude and intensity... SMH.
Right on!
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:06 PM   #803 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

Why do people still think ratings are relevant in the era of the internet?
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other day i started jerking off in the ticket both at all that DRAWING and had to be escorted out of the arena
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:15 PM   #804 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

I've gotta say, I'd rather see Heyman booking a Vince vs. Lawler angle, than Vince booking a Heyman vs. Lawler angle.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:20 PM   #805 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

So the whole crux of the argument seems to be "Lawler didn't die, therefore its not as big a deal." I fail to see how that makes it OK, myself. If someone gets cancer and survives, does that suddenly mean its cool to rip on them?

Most of the time in storytelling, they might use an issue like a heart attack as a plot point, but because its a fictitious heart attack they're talking about, its seen as fine. In this case its different because the heart attack in question actually happened. That's what people are offended by.

I myself don't care about the heart attack, but that there are many better ways to convey edginess than going this route that makes them appear low brow. Also, couldn't they have put some time in between this angle and the heart attack? My God, his first appearance back and they're making it into an angle. That just screams exploitation. "Gotta strike while the iron is hot!"

The issue is-where do we draw the line? "Eddie is in Hell" was incredibly offensive because he died. Vickie probably gave the OK for the story. Why is that so bad but this isn't? At the same time, this plays off a real life situation. Katie Vick was totally made up, but that was also incredibly offensive. What are the parameters for what is and isn't offensive? Its all personal choice it seems, but are there guidelines for what is unanimously considered offensive?
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:38 PM   #806 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

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Originally Posted by KO Bossy View Post
So the whole crux of the argument seems to be "Lawler didn't die, therefore its not as big a deal." I fail to see how that makes it OK, myself. If someone gets cancer and survives, does that suddenly mean its cool to rip on them?

Most of the time in storytelling, they might use an issue like a heart attack as a plot point, but because its a fictitious heart attack they're talking about, its seen as fine. In this case its different because the heart attack in question actually happened. That's what people are offended by.

I myself don't care about the heart attack, but that there are many better ways to convey edginess than going this route that makes them appear low brow. Also, couldn't they have put some time in between this angle and the heart attack? My God, his first appearance back and they're making it into an angle. That just screams exploitation. "Gotta strike while the iron is hot!"

The issue is-where do we draw the line? "Eddie is in Hell" was incredibly offensive because he died. Vickie probably gave the OK for the story. Why is that so bad but this isn't? At the same time, this plays off a real life situation. Katie Vick was totally made up, but that was also incredibly offensive. What are the parameters for what is and isn't offensive? Its all personal choice it seems, but are there guidelines for what is unanimously considered offensive?
I wouldn't say that it isn't a big deal at all. The fact that Lawler fell to a heart attack is a big deal and the fact that he got well enough to return is also a big deal. It's a blessing that he pulled through. It isn't okay to make fun of someone who suffered a heart attack, the same can be said about someone who recovered from cancer, but it's hard for me to feel any offense towards it outside of the show because this was done with Lawler's consent. I won't call someone a pussy for being seriously offended by this segment because people take things in differently than others, but I still disagree that this crossed the line.

I never saw it as exploitation so much as a way to shock people and it worked. I'm sure that the angle could have worked with some time put into it before the mocking, but the fact that it happened on an emotional return gave more fuel to Punk's villainous juvenile heel character.

As far as the "Eddie is in hell" bit, I wasn't watching wrestling when that happened. However as disrespectful as that statement would be if Orton voiced it outside of the show non-kayfabe, it happened within the show. A fictional character said something hateful and disrespectful towards another character within a story. The words were said, but there was no truth to them as far as reality goes. To me, at least, the real world event doesn't even take precedent because everyone involved with the WWE mourned Eddie on his tribute. I feel the same way about Lawler's heart attack.

I'm sure that in time the WWE will be able to produce more elaborate angles to fit yours and others' tastes, but I thought that this was a good way for the company to start in a new and possibly better direction.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:13 PM   #807 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

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Originally Posted by ChickMagnet12 View Post
Why do people still think ratings are relevant in the era of the internet?
They are. If ratings don't matter then explain how they are going to promote themselves to an audience otherwise? Only Punk marks that try to cover up for the fact he's a failure on that front or defenders of today's terrible environment try to argue against it.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:19 PM   #808 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

The ratings should only matter to WWE employees.
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:09 PM   #809 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

The segment was fine.. people need to quit being cry babies.

If WWE wants to make an edgier product they will have to bring Raw back to two hours.. as the product gets edgier people who are not used to that or never watch anything else on TV besides wrestling (you know The Joker in batman was a much more evil villan than CM Punk? Are you people this offended by the batman movies)

i want more stuff like this, edgy stuff that makes you hate the villan.. i hate that whole "im gonna kick your butt" - it is so unreaistic and so unappealing.

This PG era needs to go and so do the PG era fans. the people who say "WWE was PG in the 90s" are forgetting that WWE almost went bankrupt in the 90s.. if WWE didn't put out edgier entertainment like everything else that is on TV there would be no WWE today.
the same goes for now.

WWE is a mock reality show.. what good reality/drama show is PG? all the good ones are TV-14.. the PG ones get cancelled so QUICK.. the difference is WWE has a huge bankroll,

If WWE does not get away from PG there will not be a WWE in 5 years. GUARANTEED!!!

as WWE goes to edgier programming they will loose their PG fans, the children and all that. (and of course, people who don't have a clue what they are talking about will show the ratings and say.. "see that means this edgy stuff is bad, ratings are going down".. the ratings will continue to go down as they get more edgy for a bit.. but they will pick up and get back into the 4.5+ ratings..
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:26 PM   #810 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

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Originally Posted by Choke2Death View Post
They are. If ratings don't matter then explain how they are going to promote themselves to an audience otherwise? Only Punk marks that try to cover up for the fact he's a failure on that front or defenders of today's terrible environment try to argue against it.
If it was really important they wouldn't do three hour shows since that lowers the ratings. The reality is that they earn more money this way, which shows that you can't just go on total numbers. Since Punk is one of the most consistent in gaining viewers with his segments most attempts to discredit him this way just comes off as cheap hate.
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