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Old 11-13-2012, 02:32 PM   #571 (permalink)
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I think the counterarguments using BA* & other PR may confuse what wwe is for what their marketing n pr depts do.

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Old 11-13-2012, 02:33 PM   #572 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

I know that Vince and many other industry promoters and businessmen have wondered so many times "why is it wrestling gets such a bad rap? You know, hockey, baseball, basketball, now UFC, they all get taken so much more seriously than wrestling. Why can't we achieve that level of seriousness?"

Well, this segment from last night would be a pretty good indicator of why that is.

I don't know how Joey Ryan in TNA is using the catchphrase "I'm bringing sleazy back." The way the WWE acts, you'd think Vince would have trademarked that for himself 20 years ago.

This is pretty much the Katie Vick moment of this era. They have just stooped to that new level of 'low' that is pretty much not going to be outdone, and will go down in annals of history right alongside Triple H fucking a corpse, Mae Young birthing a hand, Rosie vs Donald Trump, Jake Roberts and Scott Hall having their drug problems being made into a storyline, etc. In a way, its kind of an honor. This segment was so tasteless, so devoid of humanity and decency, so completely wrong that its sorta historical. 50 bucks says that this wins the Wrestling Observer Award for "Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic."

Its also kinda funny, too. WWE is so PG and intent on giving this squeaky clean image of themselves to the public, doing all this shit with Breast Cancer, the military, Make a Wish...and all the good it does them is totally undone when something like this happens. Just when we think we're free of it, I picture Vince McMahon as this crazy puppeteer in the rafters, pulling all these strings to remind us "I NEVER WENT AWAY!"

The most amusing part of this whole thing is that this giant debacle, which is pretty much the talk of the industry (and not in a good way) comes a whopping SIX DAYS after Linda McMahon was soundly crushed in her farcical run for Senate. My God, not even a full week went by and they're already busting out the depravity and scum. 2 months ago, you think we would have seen this? Chris Murphy would have had a field day with it. Now, its like a whole new post-Linda-Senate-run era, except when they break open the bottle of wine against the ring post to christen the occasion, its full of liquid shit.

Great job, WWE. You keep staying classy.


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Old 11-13-2012, 02:35 PM   #573 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

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Originally Posted by dan the marino View Post
Agreed completely, because edgy always = better rite?

Like an 80 year old woman giving birth to a hand and Kurt stalking Sharmell and Big Bossman hanging and Katie Vick and all that other stuff that is looked back on with "what the fuck were they thinking" by most fans.

This sort of stupidity is the issue here (not calling you out in particular btw). This "PUNK MOCKED A GUY WE WACHED ALMOSTT DI SO EDGIE XXXXD NEW ATITUTDE EARA" horseshit.

Thing is I don't think it's the biggest deal here, WWE have done a lot worse. But yeah, some people found it uncomfortable, understandable considering not too long ago we watched him nearly die on camera. Hell I felt uncomfortable when Cole was mocking Lawler's dead mom, and she sure wasn't my mom. It wasn't the "wow what a good heel" feeling either, but a "I really don't want to see this" kind.

And people keep bringing up Shiek and Slaughter's heel turn during the Gulf War. Well

1 - I thought most people felt that was a really cheap way to get heat (not only anti-America but also "defecting" to the enemies side during a war)
2 - Times change, people have smartened up. When things go "too far" they don't get mad at the wrestler (hell just look at last night's crowd reaction) but instead get mad at the writers

Honestly it's been said in this thread already but the worst part about that whole promo was that they actually recorded the doctors giving CPR to Lawler when he was medically dead. What kind of chucklefuck gave the green light to record someone dying backstage?
Edgy is not always better but edgy is more realistic. And what is more realistic than a bad guy mocking a heart attack of someone who just returned?
If someone breaks his leg and you dislike the guy the first thing you do is making fun of his leg
Of course some people are shocked but that is the purpose. South Park would not be so successful if nobody would give a fuck.
I am not saying "HART ATTACK! ATTITUDE ERA IZ BACK", I say that this could be the step in the new direction of WWE, especially after the senate BS. When you want to start something you need something to shock people or at least make them feel uncomfortable.
Many Christians also felt uncomfortable during the Austin 3:16 promo or when Undertaker crucified Austin.
If you want to shock a little WWE fan all you have to do is making Cena lose or making him joining the Nexus but if you want to shock adults you need to be more creative because the older fans have seen it all.
Nobody talks about the Ziggler/Vickie/AJ segment except of little WWE marks who are excited because Cena saved AJ
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:39 PM   #574 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

You thought that was tasteless I guess no one has seen the inner destruction of LOD with Hawk's alcoholism and the Rhodes family on air family breakdown.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:40 PM   #575 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

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Originally Posted by KO Bossy View Post
I know that Vince and many other industry promoters and businessmen have wondered so many times "why is it wrestling gets such a bad rap? You know, hockey, baseball, basketball, now UFC, they all get taken so much more seriously than wrestling. Why can't we achieve that level of seriousness?"

Well, this segment from last night would be a pretty good indicator of why that is.

I don't know how Joey Ryan in TNA is using the catchphrase "I'm bringing sleazy back." The way the WWE acts, you'd think Vince would have trademarked that for himself 20 years ago.

This is pretty much the Katie Vick moment of this era. They have just stooped to that new level of 'low' that is pretty much not going to be outdone, and will go down in annals of history right alongside Triple H fucking a corpse, Mae Young birthing a hand, Rosie vs Donald Trump, Jake Roberts and Scott Hall having their drug problems being made into a storyline, etc. In a way, its kind of an honor. This segment was so tasteless, so devoid of humanity and decency, so completely wrong that its sorta historical. 50 bucks says that this wins the Wrestling Observer Award for "Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic."

Its also kinda funny, too. WWE is so PG and intent on giving this squeaky clean image of themselves to the public, doing all this shit with Breast Cancer, the military, Make a Wish...and all the good it does them is totally undone when something like this happens. Just when we think we're free of it, I picture Vince McMahon as this crazy puppeteer in the rafters, pulling all these strings to remind us "I NEVER WENT AWAY!"

The most amusing part of this whole thing is that this giant debacle, which is pretty much the talk of the industry (and not in a good way) comes a whopping SIX DAYS after Linda McMahon was soundly crushed in her farcical run for Senate. My God, not even a full week went by and they're already busting out the depravity and scum. 2 months ago, you think we would have seen this? Chris Murphy would have had a field day with it. Now, its like a whole new post-Linda-Senate-run era, except when they break open the bottle of wine against the ring post to christen the occasion, its full of liquid shit.

Great job, WWE. You keep staying classy.


Fucking idiots.
The reason they call it entertainment, like it or not this is what they consider entertainment. Shocking people and making people angry seems liked it work over here. Wrestling gets a bad rap because people proclaim that it's fake not because of "Poor Taste" moments. Ask anyone if they watch wrestling, what's the first words that escapes their mouth after you ask them...."You know wrestling is fake right?". No matter how YOU think wrestling is viewed in public eyes, the truth is that people see wrestling as "fake".
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:42 PM   #576 (permalink)
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Basically this...anyone defending this is really making me question their intelligence. I get that you all think that Lawler "had to agree to it", but do you think that means he has to be ok with it? Vince is a cold businessman, who probably told Lawler that he was gunna do it regardless. And you all think that Punk was gunna say no to the guy who signs his multi-million dollar paycheck? FUCK NO.

Face it, all parties involved probably agreed to this...against their better judgement, and probably their own wills. Regardless, even if all sides amicably agreed to let this stunt play out, it's a despicable act to let a company try to turn a profit by turning a serious life event into yet another scripted storyline.
I honestly don't know what makes you question the "supporters" intelligence. The viewing audience responded accordingly. He didn't die and he was joking about it himself. So if the problem isn't with lawler and some conspiracy that Vince bullied him to do it. The only reason you guys are offended and feel like it stepped over the line is because.
1. It was real life and that somehow makes it wrong.
Cm punk and the rest of the staff has showed him the utmost praise and concern when he was in the hospital. So the fact that it was real has nothing to do with the angle or the promo.
2. The fact that is a near death experience resonates with you (a loved one having a heart attack or a near death experience or what have you)

That is the purpose the emotional response is the purpose of it. The fact that it was real only increases the effect. Comics, work colleagues, and family make light of near death experiences to help cope (Jerry did it on the same show), that fact that he can use the same energy from that experience to improve the product (the same people that supported him through his hard time) is a bonus in my opinion and I'm sure Jerry felt the same.


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Old 11-13-2012, 02:42 PM   #577 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

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Originally Posted by Aloverssoulz View Post
The best thing about last nights mockery of King's heart attack is the reaction from the whiners on here. You people must have cried yourselves to sleep every week during the late 90's.
If you think all that Attitude was was tasteless storylines, then I'm afraid you missed the point entirely.

Yes, Attitude did have risque, very adult themed stories and feuds, and some of them went over the line.

There's tasteless...and then there's this.

Raunchy and offensive as Attitude may have been, at least they didn't have Triple H climb up to the rafters in a Blue Blazer costume and start dangling off of them while screaming "OH MOMMY, ITS TOO HIGH, BUT I GUESS FALLING IS THE ONLY WAY I CAN MAKE AN 'IMPACT'" one month after Over the Edge 1999. Why? Because there's offensive, and then there's shockingly, unforgivably, disgustingly, horribly offensive. Mocking a man who had a heart attack by staging a fake heart attack segment would fall into the latter. I get that Jerry may have been cool with this, but...who really stopped and said "this would be a great idea!" (Don't answer that, I know it was Vince). Like, I'm not even personally bothered by this, but come on. Nothing about that segment at all seemed like it might be a good idea. So that's the way they went. Does this really build up heat for Punk or does it alienate your audience who have dealt with things like this in their personal lives? Again, I'd go with the latter.

There's so many other ways this whole thing could have been done, but its like the WWE went with the worst. That includes their fucking ludicrous idea of showing footage and clips of Jerry falling over and not breathing. Just a complete lack of human decency.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:43 PM   #578 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

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Originally Posted by DualShock View Post
Edgy is not always better but edgy is more realistic. And what is more realistic than a bad guy mocking a heart attack of someone who just returned?
If someone breaks his leg and you dislike the guy the first thing you do is making fun of his leg
Of course some people are shocked but that is the purpose. South Park would not be so successful if nobody would give a fuck.
I am not saying "HART ATTACK! ATTITUDE ERA IZ BACK", I say that this could be the step in the new direction of WWE, especially after the senate BS. When you want to start something you need something to shock people or at least make them feel uncomfortable.
Many Christians also felt uncomfortable during the Austin 3:16 promo or when Undertaker crucified Austin.
If you want to shock a little WWE fan all you have to do is making Cena lose or making him joining the Nexus but if you want to shock adults you need to be more creative because the older fans have seen it all.
Nobody talks about the Ziggler/Vickie/AJ segment except of little WWE marks who are excited because Cena saved AJ
Perfect couldn't have explained it better, although I am a Christian and I wasn't really uncomfortable by that Austin promo but I do agree if you want to shock adults you have to do something shocking.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:48 PM   #579 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

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Originally Posted by Ziggler Mark View Post
I just like how most of this forum thought it was a disgrace when Vinny Mac mocked JR's Bells Palsey, but think that mocking a heart attack (a far more life-threatening issue) is ok.
Simple
Jim Ross was not involved in this segment and nobody asked him if he allows them to do it.

Jerry Lawler was involved, he is alroght and that makes the difference. If CM Punk did it 7 days after the hear attack I would call it disgusting too.

Some people act like watching the Dave Chappelle show and complaining "that's racist!"
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:49 PM   #580 (permalink)
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Default Re: Punk & Heyman mocking King's heart attack

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The reason they call it entertainment, like it or not this is what they consider entertainment. Shocking people and making people angry seems liked it work over here. Wrestling gets a bad rap because people proclaim that it's fake not because of "Poor Taste" moments. Ask anyone if they watch wrestling, what's the first words that escapes their mouth after you ask them...."You know wrestling is fake right?". No matter how YOU think wrestling is viewed in public eyes, the truth is that people see wrestling as "fake".
Once upon a time, people could watch wrestling, and be proud of it, despite it being fake.

Now, its like a secret shame.

Look at movies. Movies are fake. Do you hear Dark Knight Rises getting a bad rap because it wasn't real? Its the same concept as WWE-they ask you to suspend your disbelief and buy into what is happening as real, so you become emotionally invested and care about the plot and characters. Dark Knight Rises succeeded in that. I've never heard one person go and say "I loved this movie!" and have that be responded to with "you know it was fake, right?" Why is that, do you think? Because movies are generally viewed as something that's cool and popular. Wrestling back in the day was as well, so you could watch it, know it was fake and still enjoy it, and have it be acceptable in the eyes of others.

WWE today, on the other hand, makes it embarrassing for wrestling fans to admit their interest...and I think it largely has to do with bullshit like this.
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