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**777** · 10-14-2012, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Combat Analyst

Except the shoot made him a tweener, a rebel.

The promo didn't make him a tweener, it opened up Pandora's box and was one of the few recent instances of 'is this real?'. Things could have gone in any direction at that point and they chose the lazy route of pandering to cheap pops instead of keeping Punk and the title off of TV which would cast him in a villain role.

CM12Punk · 10-14-2012, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 777

The promo didn't make him a tweener, it opened up Pandora's box and was one of the few recent instances of 'is this real?'. Things could have gone in any direction at that point and they chose the lazy route of pandering to cheap pops instead of keeping Punk and the title off of TV which would cast him in a villain role.

Actually it did. He wasn't exactly a full heel anymore because he was technically fighting for what was right and trying to make the company better but he also wasn't the full face. He had that character till the end of the HHH feud though.

sesshomaru · 10-14-2012, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrestling_junkie

To what he was as a babyface. WWE knew how popular Punk was and he was cheered by loads of people and the chants were massive in some arenas. Was such a shocker when Punk turned heel because I didnt expect it, especially as he was built up as one of the top babyfaces in the company after his face turn in 2011.

May sound stupid to think 'How do you not understand why Punk is like this' but thats due to the fact I did not understand why would you turn him the complete opposite to what he was a few months prior. And for people else who was in the situation I was like, as I watch Punk heel turn progress I understand exactly why they need to make sure Punk gets as much heat as possible.

Have you noticed Punk berates the crowd constantly, runs away cowardly, belittles home-crowds, refuses matches, and putting him with Paul Heyman. WWE are trying so hard to make sure Punk gets as much heat as possible because of his mass popularity that he had prior to it. Imagine a Punk who didnt run away, didnt belittle the crowd, and althoug is meant to be a heel and he gets all these cheers, hes not really a heel if hes outpopping the babyfaces.

So now we have a confirmed Punk role whom will hopefully reign as a top heel in the company. I am liking the fact WWE are working hard to ensure Punk gets as much heat as possible because they want people to view him as 'THE BAD GUY' of the company. And to be honest it wouldnt be hard to turn Punk into a popular babyface in the future, all you would have to do is have Paul Heyman betray him with Lesnar - and Punk can go on apologisng how Paul Heyman posioned him and would seek redemption from the fans and woul take out Heyman/Lesnar or something like that.

So with all the complaining I have done in the past, good job WWE on CM Punk

Yeah they seem to be taking him through the "JBL" paces of just making him as unlikable as possible. Unlike guys like HHH who got some cheers because he was a badass, Punk (like JBL was) was just detestable in every way. Plus, like JBL, he's having a super long reign. I expect he'll cheat in some way to escape the cell.

It's too bad that they coulden't keep him as a fighting Champion, but if they did that he would still get cheers...

ellthom · 10-14-2012, 05:18 AM

Not sure if it was WWE's idea all alone but if it was kudos to them, its a perfect way to build up a heel by making him a massive credible face in the first place. Then later down the line when he has reached his peak have him kick us in the teeth.

Thats why its so awkward usually for debuting heels (like Wade Barrett and Damian Sandow or Alberto Del Rio) to get heat straight off the bat. Nothing they do (other than what they say) make them a threat. Big Show like CM Punk got massive heat (unless most of his heat is X-Pac heat) by turning heel after being a big fan to the kids.

Heel turns from top faces is probably the best to get keep heat as long as you continue to draw on that afterwards. R-Truth was another good example, although he wasn't a big face, the kids still loved him, his little promo the week after his heel turn made him a heat machine, the only problem was that his heat didnt last and started to dwindle, it didnt help with his face turn as he is now less popular than when he was a face the first time round.

CM Punks heel turn really reminds me of Bret Harts heel turn in 1997, everyone could see it coming but it didnt happen straight away. His shoot in 1997 pretty much solidified him as one though.

Its not the first time WWE have done Punks type of heel turn, its just probably been the most successful of them all in a long time. Especially as long as Punk gets a reaction I can see him being a big top heel for a while until it wears down and WWe can just turn him face again and repeat it. A similar stint Triple H seemed to use a bit back in the day.

AthenaMark · 10-14-2012, 05:25 AM

I thought it was unnecessary for him to turn heel instead of a guy like Cena. Pretty much the same thing you could say about Eddie Guerrero in 2005 except Eddie was MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better than CM Punk on his very best day.

**Ageei** · 10-14-2012, 09:57 AM

As good as Punk is as a face he's ten times more than that as a heel.

He is emerging in my opinion as an old time heel with tremendous heat. Evidenced by the crowd attacking him for crying out loud.

I don't think he's at the Straight Edge Society heel level yet, that was insane heat, but he's getting there again, which is a credit to his talent.

**777** · 10-14-2012, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM12Punk

Actually it did. He wasn't exactly a full heel anymore because he was technically fighting for what was right and trying to make the company better but he also wasn't the full face. He had that character till the end of the HHH feud though.

I insist. The best villains believe that what they are doing is right. The promo itself didn't change the character, it was how WWE played it out that made it such. By this logic, SCSA would have been a tweener following KotR based on the fan reaction to his promo which wasn't the case. Same here, WWE gauges the reaction and writes accordingly.

Following the shoot, no-one really knew what to expect, all we knew was that it was awesome. That in itself does not constitute a change in character.

QuietInRealLife · 10-14-2012, 10:54 AM

Punk can play an amazing heel in and out of the ring, but the problem is that he can't draw. People aren't going to pay money or tune in to boo their hero, evidenced by the crap ratings since raw 1000. What he needs is a strong good guy to bounce of off. Cena can't ever be that guy, since guaranteed to be a heat magnet for at least half the crowd these days. As long as he isn't shoved down peoples throats then I can see Ryback being that guy. Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm no jaded cynical smark, I'll happily get accept Punk as the bad guy if the alternative was appealing, and I'm sorry, John Cena is not an appealing alternative for me.

I really feel like they've turned the wrong guy heel here. Is anyone else jealous of the parallel universe that's getting the 'Cena teams with Heyman' storyline that we're not?

Jotunheim · 10-14-2012, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrestling_junkie

To what he was as a babyface. WWE knew how popular Punk was and he was cheered by loads of people and the chants were massive in some arenas. Was such a shocker when Punk turned heel because I didnt expect it, especially as he was built up as one of the top babyfaces in the company after his face turn in 2011.

May sound stupid to think 'How do you not understand why Punk is like this' but thats due to the fact I did not understand why would you turn him the complete opposite to what he was a few months prior. And for people else who was in the situation I was like, as I watch Punk heel turn progress I understand exactly why they need to make sure Punk gets as much heat as possible.

Have you noticed Punk berates the crowd constantly, runs away cowardly, belittles home-crowds, refuses matches, and putting him with Paul Heyman. WWE are trying so hard to make sure Punk gets as much heat as possible because of his mass popularity that he had prior to it. Imagine a Punk who didnt run away, didnt belittle the crowd, and althoug is meant to be a heel and he gets all these cheers, hes not really a heel if hes outpopping the babyfaces.

So now we have a confirmed Punk role whom will hopefully reign as a top heel in the company. I am liking the fact WWE are working hard to ensure Punk gets as much heat as possible because they want people to view him as 'THE BAD GUY' of the company. And to be honest it wouldnt be hard to turn Punk into a popular babyface in the future, all you would have to do is have Paul Heyman betray him with Lesnar - and Punk can go on apologisng how Paul Heyman posioned him and would seek redemption from the fans and woul take out Heyman/Lesnar or something like that.

So with all the complaining I have done in the past, good job WWE on CM Punk

I agree with everything except the running away part, because they have done a horrendous job with it, it's like seeing a copypaste of The miz, and that's saying something

Asenath · 10-14-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuietInRealLife

I really feel like they've turned the wrong guy heel here. Is anyone else jealous of the parallel universe that's getting the 'Cena teams with Heyman' storyline that we're not?

No. That would be awful.

I am jealous of whatever universe is getting the proper Heel Punk Reigns in Hell, John Cena Strives to Overthrow Him story, though. Faces should be chasing the titles - not showing up after not being in the title scene in forever and just having title shots handed to them. John Cena, as much as the internet seems to disdain him and as much as his 2 1/2 moves of doom fail to thrill me, is an excellent Comic Book Hero. But he should be struggling more to achieve his goal.

Punk should have him on the run, not vice-versa.