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post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-10-2012, 08:29 AM
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Re: That Was It?

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Originally Posted by Evil Peter View Post
The sad part about Ryback is that he hasn't actually done much to get the responses he has. He only does squashes so he doesn't offer much actual wrestling. He pretty much only has a catch phrase, so he hasn't offered any mic work.
It isn't sad, it actually impressive. Tensai got put over stars and got nowhere. Ryback beats people who have wrestled 1 match in WWE and it was against Ryback, and he soars in popularity. You'd have absolutely bitched he was getting pushed too hard with the rationalization being that he beat legit people. Instead you're bitching that he's getting pushed too hard. . . by beating nameless jobbers?

And he has 3 catch phrases. "Wake up", "Feed me more", and "finish it". The crowd hasn't entirely caught on to "wake up" yet, but they have with the other two already.

Finally, "mic work" has become massively overrated on here. He doesn't need to trot out and bore us with a 15 minute soap box session every week. When Ryback comes out, I want to see him destroy someone, not whine about his status for 10+ minutes twice a night. Quite frankly, I'm happy he doesn't waste my time with any more inane ramblings than are already polluting the show enough as it is.


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Originally Posted by DualShock View Post
Ryback fans are like Glee fans, they love their songs because they never heard of the original
Same here, if you watched Goldberg you understand why Ryback is so embarrassing
k, so if anything good comes along after something better's come along, it's somehow demoted to dogshit status by default?

Why do you even watch then? Nobody out there now is better than the guys in the past. Just watch old Raw tapes each monday instead and spare us from your old man "back in my day" bullshit that nobody ever wants to hear.

Last edited by SinJackal; 10-10-2012 at 03:19 PM.
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post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-10-2012, 10:14 AM
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Re: That Was It?

I am not a fan of Ryback but that episode last night took me back to the Attitude Era. The crowd played a massive part in it because they were electric. As i said i am not a fan of Ryback but he is over as f*ck right now and i am genuinely excited about the potential match up of Ryback V Punk, the build for it has been class and for all the bitching on here constantly can we not at least admit last nights raw was top notch? from the promos to the commentary to the on-going storylines, absolutely loved it.





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post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-10-2012, 11:09 AM
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Re: That Was It?

I think some credit for the 'rise of Ryback' has to be given to Cena too, for becoming such a stale and boring character.

He's made fans so desperate for a change that when another face comes along who's the polar opposite of Cena...a guy who's badass and destroys opponents in convincing fashion and has a cool catchphrase...a guy like Ryback...then I'm not surprised people are getting behind it. Hell, I'd even cheer for him at a live show myself. There's those that'll cheer for him because they genuinely like the guy and those (like me) that'll cheer for him because they'd rather see him as the face of the company than Cena the boring, squeaky clean corporate kiss ass.

Good luck to the guy I say. It's great to see someone different in the main event picture for a change who actually seems like a legitimate threat.

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post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-10-2012, 12:28 PM
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Re: That Was It?

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Originally Posted by ToxieDogg View Post
I think some credit for the 'rise of Ryback' has to be given to Cena too, for becoming such a stale and boring character.

He's made fans so desperate for a change that when another face comes along who's the polar opposite of Cena...a guy who's badass and destroys opponents in convincing fashion and has a cool catchphrase...a guy like Ryback...then I'm not surprised people are getting behind it. Hell, I'd even cheer for him at a live show myself. There's those that'll cheer for him because they genuinely like the guy and those (like me) that'll cheer for him because they'd rather see him as the face of the company than Cena the boring, squeaky clean corporate kiss ass.

Good luck to the guy I say. It's great to see someone different in the main event picture for a change who actually seems like a legitimate threat.

^^^^^^ yes!


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post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-10-2012, 12:54 PM
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Re: That Was It?

I do like Ryback. I like the fact that we have a dude that will legit whoop someone's ass. I don't care if he's a great talker. I do want to see him perform in a real match. Maybe Ryback won't be the next big thing for years to come. With that said, he's over and popular enough that he can help get some of the young heels over like Sandow, and Ambrose(when he gets here). We could have some quality rivalries for years.
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post #46 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-10-2012, 01:56 PM
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Re: That Was It?

Perfect Storm for Ryback right now. Not saying the guy doesn;t deserve any of the credit b/c he obviously does. BUt like others have said, great storyline, crowds dying for a superface that isn't Cena, GREAT heel in Punk. Issue going forward is for the WWE to sustain the popularity. We don't have to look back to far to see an example of a wasted opportunity like this. Sumer of Punk 2011 should've cemented Punk as a top face to go along with (and fill in for) Cena for a long time but the WWE didn't know (or wasn't willing) to take it to that level.

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post #47 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-10-2012, 02:21 PM
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Re: That Was It?

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Originally Posted by SinJackal View Post
It isn't sad, it actually impressive. Tensai got put over stars, got nowhere. Ryback beats people who have wrestled 1 match in WWE and it was against Ryback, and he soars in popularity. You'd have bitched he was getting pushed too hard if he beat legit people, not you're bitching that he's getting pushed too hard by beating nameless jobbers.

And he has 3 catch phrases. "Wake up", "Feed me more", and "finish it". The crowd hasn't caught on to "wake up" yet, but they have with the other two.

Finally, "mic work" has become massively overrated on here. He doesn't need to trot out and bore us with a 15 minute soap box session every week. When Ryback comes out, I want to see him destroy someone, not whine about his status for 10+ minutes twice a night. Quite frankly, I'm happy he doesn't waste my time with more inane ramblings than are already polluting the show enough as it is.
I'd appreciate it if you stopped using straw man arguments. That doesn't help anyone. If he had been squashing bigger stars I'd still complain because it's the squash that's the problem. Squash matches aren't the least bit interesting in a scripted sport in my view as it tells the flattest story ever told, and it usually makes for significantly easier ring work. Sure, to have a squash or three when you're debuting works to show off some of your moves, but after that it gets boring. What's impressive to me is putting on matches where you have to work both to look good yourself and to make your opponent look good, while telling a story. So if Ryback had actually gotten some real matches and done well I certainly wouldn't be complaining about that, although his character probably makes him no-sell a lot of things and that not fun either.

I've also yet to figure out why he yells "finish it" and then go for the finish. Is he talking to himself? If so, why?

And I definitely disagree about mic work. That's how you actually bring out a character and it's impossible to have any depth without it, plus that scripted matches don't actually mean much without drama. It doesn't mean that you have to talk for a long time, as that's for the ones that's the best at it, but it definitely requires more than repeating one thing over and over. Cesaro is a great example of a wrestler that gets me excited for what's to come. He looks very good in the ring when he's gotten longer match time and he conveys his character very well in his promos, despite that his 5 language thing is often scripted pretty silly by just saying one word five times. I feel completely certain that Cesaro will be up to the task when he's being pushed higher.

So no, I don't think it's impressive because I don't think looking a certain way is impressive, and his push (which includes getting to be the counterweight to the biggest heel, while mostly standing still) isn't his doing. I hope he can be impressive when he's actually put to some proper use, but we'll see when that happens.

Last edited by Evil Peter; 10-10-2012 at 02:25 PM.
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post #48 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-10-2012, 04:15 PM
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Re: That Was It?

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Originally Posted by Evil Peter View Post
I'd appreciate it if you stopped using straw man arguments. That doesn't help anyone. If he had been squashing bigger stars I'd still complain because it's the squash that's the problem. Squash matches aren't the least bit interesting in a scripted sport in my view as it tells the flattest story ever told, and it usually makes for significantly easier ring work. Sure, to have a squash or three when you're debuting works to show off some of your moves, but after that it gets boring. What's impressive to me is putting on matches where you have to work both to look good yourself and to make your opponent look good, while telling a story. So if Ryback had actually gotten some real matches and done well I certainly wouldn't be complaining about that, although his character probably makes him no-sell a lot of things and that not fun either.

I've also yet to figure out why he yells "finish it" and then go for the finish. Is he talking to himself? If so, why?

And I definitely disagree about mic work. That's how you actually bring out a character and it's impossible to have any depth without it, plus that scripted matches don't actually mean much without drama. It doesn't mean that you have to talk for a long time, as that's for the ones that's the best at it, but it definitely requires more than repeating one thing over and over. Cesaro is a great example of a wrestler that gets me excited for what's to come. He looks very good in the ring when he's gotten longer match time and he conveys his character very well in his promos, despite that his 5 language thing is often scripted pretty silly by just saying one word five times. I feel completely certain that Cesaro will be up to the task when he's being pushed higher.

So no, I don't think it's impressive because I don't think looking a certain way is impressive, and his push (which includes getting to be the counterweight to the biggest heel, while mostly standing still) isn't his doing. I hope he can be impressive when he's actually put to some proper use, but we'll see when that happens.
It isn't a straw man argument. I bolded what you just claimed I straw man argued, yet you just said the exact same thing I said that you're calling a straw man argument.

So thanks for clearing that up for yourself rather than deny it. But no thanks for lying about what I said being a straw man since it's what you believed anyway. I'm guessing you just wanted to use that term since I used it against you last week properly. I don't use logical fallacies or try to pass off my opinion like it means more than facts, unlike you. If I say something that seems to reply to something that isn't in the post I'm replying to, it's because I'm using something you said elsewhere to support an argument.

Onto the rest of that paragraph, none of it was a point, all you did was tell me your opinion, which tbh, doesn't mean much. You've already established that you don't like Ryback or what he brings, so you aren't telling us anything we don't already know about you. I'm not going to debate your opinion because you can't prove someone's opinion wrong, it's just what they think. You can think what you want.

What I will do though, is point out that you're a huge Punk mark. You've been posting your dislike of Ryback very vehemently after he was put up against Punk. It's fairly obvious where your disdain for Ryback comes from. Pretty relevant fact when put up next to your opinions. Maybe you should preface your posts with "I'm a Punk mark", so people know the main reason why you don't like Ryback.


Quote:
I've also yet to figure out why he yells "finish it" and then go for the finish. Is he talking to himself? If so, why?
Is that supposed to be a joke? Or are you just feigning extreme ignorance to nitpick something else about him? He obviously does it to get the crowd excited. Many other wrestlers do the same thing. CM Punk yells "nap time" and puts his hands to his cheek, Cena does the "You can't see me" thing, etc. This shit isn't new. . .at all. Even 20 years ago wrestlers were doing it.

The mic work thing, you brought up a terrible example. Cesaro barely says anything on the mic, and in fact literally repeats himself 5 times in every promo. But hey, he gets you interested in what's to come next. . .even though you just said it requires one to do more than repeat the same thing over and over, and that's the main thing Cesaro does.

You also can't legitimately bitch about him being put against a heel to get a push, since not only does damn near everyone get their big start that way, but your hero Punk got his super stardom by being put up against a much bigger guy at the time in John Cena. It's funny how you complain about things, yet are totally okay with it if someone you like does it.

You're a hypocrite dude. All 3 of your points go against the guys you actually like. Yet it only matters when someone you don't like falls into that category.
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post #49 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-10-2012, 04:48 PM
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Re: That Was It?

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Originally Posted by SinJackal View Post
It isn't a straw man argument. I bolded what you just claimed I straw man argued, yet you just said the exact same thing I said that you're calling a straw man argument.

So thanks for clearing that up for yourself rather than deny it. But no thanks for lying about what I said being a straw man since it's what you believed anyway. I'm guessing you just wanted to use that term since I used it against you last week properly. I don't use logical fallacies or try to pass off my opinion like it means more than facts, unlike you. If I say something that seems to reply to something that isn't in the post I'm replying to, it's because I'm using something you said elsewhere to support an argument.

Onto the rest of that paragraph, none of it was a point, all you did was tell me your opinion, which tbh, doesn't mean much. You've already established that you don't like Ryback or what he brings, so you aren't telling us anything we don't already know about you. I'm not going to debate your opinion because you can't prove someone's opinion wrong, it's just what they think. You can think what you want.

What I will do though, is point out that you're a huge Punk mark. You've been posting your dislike of Ryback very vehemently after he was put up against Punk. It's fairly obvious where your disdain for Ryback comes from. Pretty relevant fact when put up next to your opinions. Maybe you should preface your posts with "I'm a Punk mark", so people know the main reason why you don't like Ryback.
I felt that it must be a straw man argument since otherwise your comment was completely nonsensical. If I say that I dislike squash matches it's completely illogical to say "you complain now when he squashes jobbers but you'd also complain if he squashes big stars". Of course, because it's the same thing (squash matches). You say that I complain that he's being pushed too hard when he squashes jobbers, which is completely wrong. I never said that makes him pushed too strongly, I said that it makes for boring matches.

And regardless if you made a straw man argument or a nonsensical point there you went on to use a straw man when it came to mic work. I said that he hadn't done any and you say it's overrated because he doesn't need to talk for 15 minutes. Just because I wanted to see mic work doesn't mean that I want everyone to talk in 15 minute segments. That's the definition of a straw man argument.

You go on by trying to project opinions onto me when you claim that I dislike Ryback because he's put up against Punk (and yes, I'm definitely a Punk mark, which I've said many times). That is again not true. I said that I found Ryback boring way before that, but seeing how I take responsibility for my own entertainment I often skipped past his segments when I saw that it would be the same old thing, which means I didn't feel much need to talk about him. When he's thrust into segments that I do watch he appears on the radar again and it makes me more inclined to voice my opinion about it. So I don't write bad stuff about him just because he happens to go against CM Punk. If I did, why wouldn't I always write bad things about Cena? He's the real protagonist that goes against Punk. I can certainly say that I'm no Cena fan (which goes many years back) but I do credit him for having chemistry with Punk and they've put on good matches and other kinds of segments. I didn't have bad things to say about Punk opponents when he was against Bryan or Jericho either, and so on.

The above isn't a straw man argument but instead the logical fallacy named Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Meaning that you see something that's happened after an event and therefor conclude that the event must have been the reason that this "something" happened.

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Originally Posted by SinJackal View Post
Is that supposed to be a joke? Or are you just feigning extreme ignorance to nitpick something else about him? He obviously does it to get the crowd excited. Many other wrestlers do the same thing. CM Punk yells "nap time" and puts his hands to his cheek, Cena does the "You can't see me" thing, etc. This shit isn't new. . .at all. Even 20 years ago wrestlers were doing it.

The mic work thing, you brought up a terrible example. Cesaro barely says anything on the mic, and in fact literally repeats himself 5 times in every promo. But hey, he gets you interested in what's to come next. . .even though you just said it requires one to do more than repeat the same thing over and over, and that's the main thing Cesaro does.

You also can't legitimately bitch about him being put against a heel to get a push, since not only does damn near everyone get their big start that way, but your hero Punk got his super stardom by being put up against a much bigger guy at the time in John Cena. It's funny how you complain about things, yet are totally okay with it if someone you like does it.

You're a hypocrite dude. All 3 of your points go against the guys you actually like. Yet it only matters when someone you don't like falls into that category.
Of course I'm not asking why he says it in terms of reaction. I'm asking because it makes no grammatical sense. "Finish it" means that you're telling someone else to finish something. In the context he uses it he appears to talk to himself, seeing how he does finish his opponent himself. It would have made more sense if he said "I'm finishing it" or any variant thereof. I brought it up because you brought his other phrases into the discussion.

Cesaro doesn't just repeat himself five times in all promos anymore, which is why he's become more interesting. Last Raw he started devaluing Americans and their eating habits, something that continued on the post show thing on the web. Before I saw things like that I've only commented on his promos by saying that the gimmick is dumb, and that Swiss is not a language. It does work when he's just randomly talking in other languages now and then though.

I don't know what you're trying to say with the next paragraph. Possibly something related to what I already refuted above, that I dislike Ryback for being put against Punk.

It would be fun to see you explain how my points go against the guys I like. First I said that I dislike squash matches, and I've explained that I started to like Cesaro's style when he got more time in a match. I've said that I want to see mic work (or promo work in general) and again I've only commended Cesaro after he got to do a proper promo (and I've criticized his "one word, five languages" short promo). Both points are extremely far away from what Punk does, who doesn't even do squash matches when he fights Lawler and Vince.

As a final not I can again point out that I've said that several things lacking with Ryback is due to him not having gotten the chance to show something.
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post #50 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-10-2012, 05:07 PM
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Re: That Was It?

The Ryback is going up to fast. Remember the days where wrestlers accomplished something before immediately getting involved with the top champion?
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