Raw 10/8/12 Discussion: Rise Above Nipples, Punk Slaps Bitches - Page 234 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:58 PM   #2331 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raw Discussion Thread 10/8/12: Rise Above Nipples, Punk Punches Bitches

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Old 10-09-2012, 05:22 PM   #2332 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raw Discussion Thread 10/8/12: Rise Above Nipples, Punk Punches Bitches

Is it wrong to say I don't want Lawler back? I fucking love Jibble and JR on commentary.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:32 PM   #2333 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raw Discussion Thread 10/8/12: Rise Above Nipples, Punk Punches Bitches

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Is it wrong to say I don't want Lawler back? I fucking love Jibble and JR on commentary.
Even JBL and Cole are great.

Cole calling JBL 'Mr I am fit because I climb up mountain' made me laugh!
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:40 PM   #2334 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raw Discussion Thread 10/8/12: Rise Above Nipples, Punk Punches Bitches

I am one of the few people which has been high on RAW for the past month or so: really, since around Summerslam, WWE has really gotten a grasp on how to make a decent to good episode of RAW.
Now, I don't know how the ratings are doing or how well they place their segments to achieve good ratings, but the content itself has been good.

Of course, there have been many occurrences of bad booking, bad decisions and such, but really, since Summerslam basically all episodes of RAW have been solid.

This one really took the cake - best 5 of the year, for sure. Lots of matches, lots of steps forward, lots of attention to lots of wrestlers. Perfect? Hell no. Better than last week? Yes.
Better than 80% of the first half of 2012? Indubitably.

It helps that the crowd was epic.
Now, again, don't get me wrong - there are a bunch of questionable decisions, little quirks and big botches (see: Barrett's return), but it's still better than before.

One thing they really need to improve on is their attention to detail and "depth development". There are examples of things done right (everything about Punk, honestly) and examples of things done bad (Cesaro, Barrett, Rhodes Scholars - all gimmicks/storylines need work).

So yeah, I'm enjoying the product, and with guys like Henry returning (hopefully) soon, I hope WWE continues to improve.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:57 PM   #2335 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raw Discussion Thread 10/8/12: Rise Above Nipples, Punk Punches Bitches

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hahahaahahaa cm punk got his butt kick by old man :

also ryback!!! on:
CM PUNK got his butt kicked by Vince McMahon, his age doesn't matter because he's still badass. It's like getting beating up by Clint Eastwood in the wrestling world XP
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:59 PM   #2336 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raw Discussion Thread 10/8/12: Rise Above Nipples, Punk Punches Bitches

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Lots of heels do the begging off thing. HHH did even when he was a badass heel. You think Punk should be booked like HHH during his Evolution run (badass who sometimes looks like a bitch but it's OK because he has backup)?
In some way shape or form. I'd prefer to liken it to the Triple H of 2000. Hunter was an awesome heel during that time. His performance in the ring as a heel, his heel character, was great. Extremely entertaining and people loved hating him. Now Punk doesn't have that Hunter physique, so the booking can't be the same. But the ideas behind it are still the same. Punk is arrogant and cocky, like Hunter was. Both cut great heel promos. They both firmly believe that they're the best (Punk is the best in the world, Hunter is The Game). The differences are that a) Punk has no backup and b) Punk gets made to look like a bitch weekly and almost never comes out on top. Hunter had backup in the McMahon-Helmsley facton and came out looking strong most of the time, that's why people would pay for PPVs to see Foley or Rock or Taker try and kick the shit out of him. When Hunter would somehow escape with a victory, that made them hate him even more, building the anticipation towards his inevitable beating even more.

Having a well built heel in this design would be a God send right now. Punk currently cuts a great promo and then looks like a pussy by the end of the show, ruining any good his promo(s) did. Why would I care about a villain who every week is basically defeated? It cripples my interest when the antagonistic force is pretty much a joke.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:04 PM   #2337 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raw Discussion Thread 10/8/12: Rise Above Nipples, Punk Punches Bitches

I definitely see what you're saying, but it's obvious that there just aren't heels like that anymore. The only time I could see that happening is if Cena turned heel. You have giants like Henry, Show, Lesnar who rarely run for a fight, but that doesn't work with someone of Punk's size. Him running still draws heat, but I see the difference you're pointing out.

Vince obviously isn't a fan of main event stables, as we rarely see them anymore, so I don't think Punk will be hooking up with someone other than Heyman unless Brock comes back to aid Punk against Ryback/Cena/Vince/etc.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:34 PM   #2338 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raw Discussion Thread 10/8/12: Rise Above Nipples, Punk Punches Bitches

I'd say that Punk hasn't been booked as very weak in important matches though. He's kicking out of a lot of AA's, and while he wasn't the moral victor of the draw that was clearly just to continue the feud into HIAC. While he was pinned by Team Hell No he was left alone against a tag team and he went on to beat both Ziggler and Sheamus on the following shows.

He's become a more cowardly heel, but he still delivers when it counts more often than not.

The biggest exception is everything in relation to Tinberg.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:03 PM   #2339 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raw Discussion Thread 10/8/12: Rise Above Nipples, Punk Punches Bitches

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Originally Posted by The Lady Killer View Post
I definitely see what you're saying, but it's obvious that there just aren't heels like that anymore. The only time I could see that happening is if Cena turned heel. You have giants like Henry, Show, Lesnar who rarely run for a fight, but that doesn't work with someone of Punk's size. Him running still draws heat, but I see the difference you're pointing out.

Vince obviously isn't a fan of main event stables, as we rarely see them anymore, so I don't think Punk will be hooking up with someone other than Heyman unless Brock comes back to aid Punk against Ryback/Cena/Vince/etc.
I don't get why he wouldn't be. He's used main event heel stables to great effect before...several of which were the backbone of some of the Fed's most profitable and stellar years.

Its just such an easy formula. A main event heel stable involves multiple heels, obviously. Against 1-2 babyfaces, they have a clear advantage, meaning there are some real odds to overcome. The greater the odds against the babyface, the more peoples' interest in seeing the wrestler overcome them. When they do, it seems like a real feat and 99% of the time its very satisfying when the conclusion is reached. As I said before, adversity=interest. Steve Austin had Vince McMahon and the Corporation to overcome to get the WWF title in 1998/1999. Steve Austin also had Undertaker and the Ministry/Corporate Ministry to overcome in 1999. Rock had Hunter and the McMahon-Helmsley faction to overcome in 2000. Sting had Ric Flair and the Four Horsemen to overcome in 1990/1991. Sting had Hulk Hogan and the entire nWo to overcome in 1997. Goldberg had Hulk Hogan and the entire nWo to overcome in 1998. Hulk Hogan had Kevin Sullivan and the Dungeon of Doom to overcome in 1994/1995. Many of these are considered some of the best storylines ever (not so much Hogan vs the Dungeon). I think Punk would greatly benefit from being the leader of a main event heel stable.

I know it won't happen, but I can dream, can't I?

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I'd say that Punk hasn't been booked as very weak in important matches though. He's kicking out of a lot of AA's, and while he wasn't the moral victor of the draw that was clearly just to continue the feud into HIAC. While he was pinned by Team Hell No he was left alone against a tag team and he went on to beat both Ziggler and Sheamus on the following shows.

He's become a more cowardly heel, but he still delivers when it counts more often than not.

The biggest exception is everything in relation to Tinberg.
Yeah but a villain that looks good once in a while doesn't work nearly as well as a villain who looks great a lot of the time. Its just common sense.

And unfortunately, while he did kick out of several AAs, the way he lost the match at NoC made him look like a chump. Cena pretty decisively beat him. Its not like Punk grabbed the tights or had Heyman hold Cena's leg, to show that Punk deliberately cheated and thus was still in the dominant position. Cena pinned him fair and square and Punk won because of a technicality he basically just stumbled across in defeat. I found that took a LOT of wind out of his sails because its like he fell flat on his face into victory. Its just not appealing having a villain who looks like a joke in that respect. I thought the way he won at Summerslam was WAY better, because he did it through pure heel tactics that made him look legit.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:54 PM   #2340 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raw Discussion Thread 10/8/12: Rise Above Nipples, Punk Punches Bitches

^ i thought punk/cena at night of champions was a dead even match. cena came out looking just a little bit stronger in the end even thought it ended in a draw cuz cena fucked up the the german with a bridge. the match didn't make punk look weak at all. it made him look like when he's at his best he can wrestle cena dead even, but can't win unless he does something extra like cheat which makes sense. #1 heel ever beat the #1 face fairly? ever in history of pro wrestling?
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