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WWE Is Paying for the Last 8 Years

9K views 72 replies 53 participants last post by  chucky101 
#1 ·
with the 2.5 rating and the overall poor numbers they have done this year, its there own fault

who have they pushed in the last 8 years, a guy who is clearly not over but dominates every week

when lesnar is brought in who does he face, hhh who is not a full time wrestler, if they go ahead with the rematch is does nothing except fill hunters ego

undertaker facing hhh AGAIN does nothing for the future, we saw that match twice at mania before but they go ahead with it again, 2 guys in there 40s who don't even wrestle anymore (barely)

with the rock and lesnar and taker all at mania, its drawing big number anyways, so why not start pushing new younger talent and build for the future

wwe has done nothing for the future, cena and punk are the only 2 guys on the roster who can draw, both are aging and worn out with nagging injuries

so where does this leave the wwe right now, ryback is going to be a bust, if thats the guy there banking on i feel sorry for them

vince will probably rush cena back, but that is a short term fix and will not address the real problem this company has

vince should of pushed younger talent atleast 3-4 years ago and turned cena heel last year if not before that, now there screwed
 
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#8 ·
They have the talent, they don't have the creative team. Anyone who says they don't have the talent is not watching the same show as the rest of us. It's an issue of creative not using them properly, shitting build ups to matches, bad feuds, lack of feuds, caring more about merch sales than a good product, which would naturally boost sales.
 
#16 ·
They've had a lot of talent come and go too:

Raven
Rhino
Sean O' Haire
Mr Kennedy
Elijah Burke
Carlito
Shelton Benjamin
Kenny Dykstra
Muhammad Hassan
MVP
Dudley Boyz
Marcus Cor Von
Paul Burchill
Lance Storm
Matt Hardy
Chris Masters
John Morrison
Matt Morgan

They never really capitalized on how popular RVD was in 2001. They could have taken full advantage of Del Rio's character. The Miz, Christian, Dolph Ziggler, Daniel Bryan, Wade Barrett and Cody Rhodes have suffered strange booking. Drew McIntyre and Alex Riley have been buried. R-Truth went from very over crazy heel to boring joke. Santino Marella is actually much better than comedy act. Zack Ryder was legit over as hell and can go in the ring.

There was a set storyline involving Foley that would have catapulted Dean Ambrose to the top.
 
#47 ·
OP, you make some points (obvious ones that didn't need to be pointed out), but you're off on two in particular.

"Who have they pushed in the last 8 years": Is this some kind of hidden anti-Cena comment? They've pushed a lot of people besides Cena. Especially recently, which confuses the shit out of me that you're talking about them not pushing anyone when they've pushed more new people recently than I've ever seen them push at once before.

Quick rundown of big "newbie" pushes in the last year and a half:

The Nexus (massive push)

Wade Barret (twice), including jamming him down our throats the first time.

Daniel Bryan is in the middle of a gigantic push.

Brodus Clay was undefeated for like half a year.

Ryback has squashed like 40 opponents and lost 0 times.

Damien Sandow has been pinned only once, and it was this week by Sheamus. . .in a match that semi put him over as a legit force in the ring anyway.

Cesaro is crushing people and has a title.

Zack Ryder got tons of air time, got put over Ziggler repeatedly, got put in the biggest celeb host spot I can even remember on Raw, won US title later in a match that was really pumped up for a good while.

Sin Cara

Del Rio (though he is a bit more than a year and a half ago)


Guys who have gotten big pushes beyond any ones they've ever gotten before:

CM Punk got a massive push for over a year straight, and it still continues.

Dolph Ziggler got a WWE title shot and won MITB, i.e. he's getting the WHC soon. Not to mention increased mic time, and has been slotted in MANY main events as an emergency filler.

Sheamus is in the middle of a super push.

Mark Henry? He was never billed as powerfully as he was last year. They even put him over Randy Orton cleanly. TWICE. WWE practically never puts heels over top faces clean.



So I don't get the complaints about "who have they pushed", because most of the roster is fairly new. The "8 years ago roster" barely has anybody on it who's still on the roster now dude. Barely anyone from 5 years ago is still on the roster. Shit, even 3 years ago



On Ryback being a bust: I don't agree at all. I think you have a bad eye for talent. I called both Ryback and Cesaro as being big in the future a couple months ago, and people here disagreed on both, claiming only Sandow was the best new guy. Now many are changing their minds about Cesaro, and Ryback is being booked as a guy that makes the WWE champ punk out two back to back weeks.

They're going to be busts though, sure. Even though Cesaro is clearly great in the ring and Ryback was getting more pops earlier this week than any non main eventer has gotten in several weeks. And that was against CM Punk of all people.

Ryback needs some work, but clearly is nowhere near being a bust. He's already shown enough potential to prove he isn't one. That comment you made might've been acceptable 2 months ago though.
 
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#71 ·
Now compare what a share of WWE stock sells for today versus 2008. That is why I think WWE is out of business in 10 years unless drastic changes take place sooner rather than later.
 
#64 ·
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to respond to OP's excellent points one by one.

with the 2.5 rating and the overall poor numbers they have done this year, its there own fault

vince will probably rush cena back, but that is a short term fix and will not address the real problem this company has

vince should of pushed younger talent atleast 3-4 years ago and turned cena heel last year if not before that, now there screwed
Wrestling's golden years were from 97 til maybe 03. Ratings would've gone down regardless, but I see what you're saying. Worst thing is when ratings are exceptionally low (by today's standards), that's when they shove Cena down our throats even more. It happened at this time last year. Cena is WWE's comfort zone and, sadly, it isn't working anymore. He is still human and will eventually wear out or, God forbid, get seriously injured.

who have they pushed in the last 8 years, a guy who is clearly not over but dominates every week
I still cannot wrap my head around it. The man gets booed by a good percentage of the crowd, yet he's still "the man". He'll stoop as low as to exalt and complement the crowd that boos him just to try to get more people to cheer for him. Happened in Chicago and it made me sick.

when lesnar is brought in who does he face, hhh who is not a full time wrestler, if they go ahead with the rematch is does nothing except fill hunters ego
WWE made a HUGE mistake by feeding Lesnar to Cena back in April. Imo, it has been WWE's biggest booking mistake of 2012 thus far. Cena gained nothing from it, but Lesnar lost quite a bit if you ask me.

undertaker facing hhh AGAIN does nothing for the future, we saw that match twice at mania before but they go ahead with it again, 2 guys in there 40s who don't even wrestle anymore (barely)
WWE is in quite a predicament. They can't explicitely say that Attitude Era is better than current era, but they constantly lean on Attitude Era stars in order to boost ratings and PPV buys. Rock, Taker, Michaels, Stone Cold, Edge, Foley, even Hart... all Attitude Era people.

with the rock and lesnar and taker all at mania, its drawing big number anyways, so why not start pushing new younger talent and build for the future

so where does this leave the wwe right now, ryback is going to be a bust, if thats the guy there banking on i feel sorry for them
WWE is scared. Aside from Cena, they have no faith in their current roster. They are starting to put more weight on Punk's shoulders, but even now it's still difficult b/c Cena is recovering so currently Punk is solely the one with the company on his shoulders.

wwe has done nothing for the future, cena and punk are the only 2 guys on the roster who can draw, both are aging and worn out with nagging injuries
100% corrent. Cena is 35 and Punk is 33. Orton is 32, but it's a known fact that he's had enough of the terrible schedule. Again, this is why WWE relies so heavily on Attitude Era stars. They are already old, the 3 names mentioned are aging, and WWE still has no one to "pass the torch" to. They need to get to work fast.
 
#70 · (Edited)
What else is there to say? They tried to kid themselves into thinking they were giving someone else a chance by having the belt on CM Punk for that long, but they were only cheating themselves. They only really handed over the reigns to Punk shortly after his heel turn, moreso after and in part because of the bone chips in Cena's arm and leg. It's a very good thing, but it's really fucked up the structure of stars in WWE.

IMO, the Cena model serves for bad business and bad entertainment. "Don't put your eggs in one basket", yet there they went.

To be fair, people have often mentioned that inaways WWE were unfortunate to have a) the "lost generation" in Ken Kennedy, MVP, Bobby Lashley etc that were meant to carry the company for a time but never did, and it left the load on the people of Cena's generation and before, and b) that not only did they not get top stars out of the aforementioned people, they also LOST stars, and quite a significant amount from Jeff Hardy in 2009 to Edge in 2011.

Now we're in a super, super weird situation where WWE as we know it can only function because of part timers, and I don't think we've ever been in that situation before.
It seems that at some point in the past 10 year, WWE has drifted from formulas that worked for over 20 years.

-A bad ass is now a funny guy.
-A muscular build is now an average joe build.
-In-ring skills are now more important than charisma.
-Looking tough is now replaced with lookin like a pretty boy.

Why don't they go back to what was successful in the past?
Actually, they do, and I hate it. You see the pushes that Sheamus and Ryback are currently receiving? Tried and tested; as much as we may hate it it's proven to work so that's why they're persisting. Those things you listed are partly to do with the shift to "family friendly entertainment"
 
#6 ·
OP is pretty much right on everything - especially Taker vs HHH, I really get the vibes HHH thinks he's on Undertaker's level and booked this match so it'd look that way. My biggest gripe about this match is when people say "well, there's no other stars that are credible enough to face the Undertaker"... yeah, because the booker's have been doing horrible jobs with writing storylines and sticking people with bad gimmicks, and HHH is one of the guy's with the most power in the company right now... go figure lol.

Also, I think you are right on the money with the Ryback thing as well, I personally get annoyed with the guy because his gimmick is a blatant rip off of Goldberg, but beyond that I do think there is star quality there - he's a big, scary looking guy, but when he has trouble lifting up Tensai, that makes things look really bad. If Goldberg wasn't able to lift up the Big Show in the Jack Hammer, I think it really would've fucked up how fans perceived him.

That being said, Goldberg goes from beating people like Heath Slater to feuding with CM Punk, it's like the WWE is pushing the guy, but in a bad sort of way, he was just getting out of the low card divison, he should be feuding with a few mid card guys first. Not to mention that the guy has been in developmental for a long time and it still appears that he can't really wrestle that well.
 
#34 ·
OP is pretty much right on everything - especially Taker vs HHH, I really get the vibes HHH thinks he's on Undertaker's level and booked this match so it'd look that way.
But HHH is greater than Taker at the very least on par with him.

Mic skills - HHH
Wrestling skills - HHH
Charisma - HHH
Hell, HHH is a bigger draw than Taker.
HHH is easily in top 3 greatest heel of all time, Taker is neither among greatest heel nor greatest faces of all time.
 
#9 ·
WWE is trying to eat their pizza without baking it first.
 
#25 ·
its less about who needs pushes and more about them writing interesting stories we havent seen before, and giving us something to come back fro every week.

Anyone, even non-wrestling fans (I'm assuming) can watch a 3 hour raw, and have a 90% success rate in guessing what happens next. It's uninteresting, non-compelling, force-fed bullshit that no one wants to watch anymore. The only reasons a good number of us still watch is because we're either desperately hoping things will turn around soon, or because we want to watch this train wreck unfold.

They have so much unbelievably able bodies in the company right now who are being underused or misused, and instead are giving guys like Brodus and Tensai unneeded screen time. I want to see more of guys like Kidd, Riley, DiBiase, Rhodes etc. I dont want to see ANOTHER FUCKING GUY building a streak (Tensai, Clay, Ryback, Cara).
 
#12 ·
I remember back in 2006 Edge's shock win over Cena at NYR pushed the ratings from ~3.5 to 4+. Now the ratings are 2.5? Holy shit that's a "downward trend" that you don't need to be a statistician to see.
 
#54 ·
WWE just always wants to push who they want when they want, and no one else can get over at that time. They were getting big ratings and attention with that title switch and dropped it because they already had a plan and didn't want to deviate from it.

Vince's ego is so big that any plan he makes he thinks will score big, and when it doesn't he blames the performer, or someone else but it's never his fault for not consulting others or responding to the audience.
 
#14 ·
The same thing that made them think we've wanted to watch it for the past 6 years... it's just now coming around that after years of abuse fans aren't willing to put up with it anymore. McMahon, if he was ever a genius at any point, is clearly not anymore. He's lost it and is so out of touch with what people tune into a wrestling company to see.
 
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#15 ·
Back in the day there wasn't just a guy...well it didn't feel like that for me but they could always transitions to new guys if some other guy left........angle,jericho,edge,eddie,Hardys, so on so forth today it feels like it's the John cena show featuring CM Punk

they need to grow some balls and really make new stars whoop some ass and become threats.
 
#18 ·
well, OP, would you say that WWE should start making Drastic changes to save the product? literally have mid carders go over Main Eventers or Ryback end the Undertaker's streak? stuff like that? I think that's where we are at, the only thing to save the WWE is do crazy drastic stuff.

Important to know, Cena can be replaced (Sheamus or even any one younger with a hero's build), so it's never going to be "to save WWE they must do _________". They do seem to be afraid of trying radically different things, and I think it's because they're company isn't as strong as it was from the last 8 years. and you're right OP, they're pretty much backed into a corner; but only because they're not willing to take bigger risks.

example, let's say they build up Ryback vs Punk over the next 5 weeks. If Cena comes back the day before HIAC, he'll replace Ryback; that's how scared they are to not use Cena. they shouldn't be thinking, how can Cena save this; it should be what wrestlers would do good here.
 
#19 ·
Yes, Cena is the only full time guy who has any star power in the wwe and no one else will reach that level until they get a clean win over him, the wwe title means nothing now a clean win over Cena is the only thing that will get you over and up to Cenas level and Vince still wont let that happen, so we wont be seeing anyone getting up to the next leavel any time soon.

The way heels are booked now is also hurting the faces getting over, no one cares if Sheamus beats Del Rio or Zigger because they've been made to look like jokes for the last 6 months, you need strong heels who can win matches clean if they have too so that they seem like a threat to the faces, you cant get be hide a face who always wins and is made to look like an unstoppable force.
 
#22 ·
Yes, Cena is the only full time guy who has any star power in the wwe and no one else will reach that level until they get a clean win over him, the wwe title means nothing now a clean win over Cena is the only thing that will get you over and up to Cenas level and Vince still wont let that happen, so we wont be seeing anyone getting up to the next leavel any time soon.
it's even sillier when thinking back how wrestlers like Stone Cold, The rock, HHH, all got beat clean many times yet look at them now. The only people who were booked like Cena are now un-employed or forgotten. I figure it's like the Hogan effect. Though Hogan was unbeatable most of his career (way more exceptions than Cena, and still very few clean loses) he was hella over. The WWE finally has someone who kids love the same way, and they don't want to let go. But how many people during the attitude era were getting beaten clean and still selling like crazy? it's like WWE is forgetting their own sales tactics.
Vince let's his personal beliefs get in the way of business. There was a thread here about an ex-writer saying how creative have had some great ideas, but they get thrown out the window when analyzed by Vince. It's like Vince IS the creative team.
The old man is a cancer.
let's be fair. Vince did more for WWE than anyone, and he is to praise and blame for the current product. I don't think you can pin all the faults on him.
They need to get rid of the "fuck the midcard" mentality, realize that not everyone has to be World Champion (even though the ones who prove themselves should be), and focus on trying to get the ENTIRE ROSTER over with the fans.
I agree with getting rid of the 'fuck the midcard' mentality. It's like after a a midcarders push, they'll feed him to Cena or Shemaus (or Ryback or Punk too) whenever their overness is low at the moment. Looking at it from a child's perspective these mid-carders all just blend in with each other; especially when compared to Cena and Sheamus.
 
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