Oh Dear Ryback... [the botches] - Page 45 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:28 AM   #441 (permalink)
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Default Re: Oh Dear Ryback... [the botches]

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Originally Posted by Iormungand View Post
I'm not entirely sure if you were directing this towards me, however I'll bite. It seems to me you're just trying to spin the videos I located in a favorable light. One was a video where Batista oversold a shot from Mark Henry in an over-the-top rediculous fashion though that one ain't really bad. The other, however, is a spot with Booker T makes no sense, why would he sandbag him and then later change his mind and help him with it? As I showed in other videos, stranger things have happened with big guys like Batista, like Cena botching an AA/FU with Mysterio.

However, I think we are both in agreement that Botches happen, the videos were mainly substance to argue against alot of ignorant jive from several posters who are likely never going to change their opinions. I'm a big Ryback fan but I know that Ryback really needs to work on his cardio and stamina if he's going to make it in the main event. They are supposed to be booking him in longer matches on House Shows, however if that is true I can't be certain since no online sources record match length from house shows.

I hope it is true though, the guy needs it.
Batista dropped Cena behid him ate the punch then looked back to make sure Cena moved before bumping. It would've been a bigger "botch" had he bumped without looking and cracked heads with Cena.

The biggest challenge for Ryback is that todays audience expects good to great matches from ppv main events they've been condition to expect this since the early 90's. Ryback may devlop into a good power match wrestler, but he has a looooooooooooooong way to go before he's ready for the typical WWE style 20+ minute ppv main events. They may be able to change it up some if he gets over enough but I don't think people shelling out 50$ for a ppv want to see 5 minute matches headlining.

I can see why people like him, but from what I've seen he looks dreadful.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:59 AM   #442 (permalink)
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Default Re: Oh Dear Ryback... [the botches]

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Originally Posted by austinrockera View Post
I don't think anyone is calling him weak by normal standards. You have to realize that Cena's strength is in an elite percentile. The guy works out squatting 500+lbs and deadlifts the same. You just don't see people do that very often.

Ryback just isn't at that level is what everyone is saying. I'm sure the guy is strong, but he isn't freak strong.

The problem is with his finishing move, the old adage is, you must be able to do it to anyone, any size multiple times. Even though he was deadweighted by Tensi, he should have been able to pull it off.
Correct, John Cena is seriously an amazing athlete, and if Ryback needs to be able to do his finishing move to anyone then he seriously needs to change it, i cant see him landing it on the Big Show or Mark Henry, maybe a powerbomb would be easier for him to perform?
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:05 PM   #443 (permalink)
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Default Re: Oh Dear Ryback... [the botches]

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Originally Posted by jcmmnx View Post
Batista dropped Cena behid him ate the punch then looked back to make sure Cena moved before bumping. It would've been a bigger "botch" had he bumped without looking and cracked heads with Cena.

The biggest challenge for Ryback is that todays audience expects good to great matches from ppv main events they've been condition to expect this since the early 90's. Ryback may devlop into a good power match wrestler, but he has a looooooooooooooong way to go before he's ready for the typical WWE style 20+ minute ppv main events. They may be able to change it up some if he gets over enough but I don't think people shelling out 50$ for a ppv want to see 5 minute matches headlining.

I can see why people like him, but from what I've seen he looks dreadful.
Alright your first defense for Batista in what I believe was the bump botch is pretty pitiful, no offense. He could have taken the bump from Mark Henry and landed flat on his back rather than backpeddling all the way across the mat and then falling over. Batist was hamming it up.

The next bit, I won't lie, he needs to work on his cardio. We know he's strong enough to do whatever he needs to do but without the ability to work longer matches he won't go anywhere. He's got the charisma to get his catchphrase over and connect with the crowd, he's got a gimmick that most guys in his position wish they would have debuted with, all that is left is to work on his cardio so he can work more impressive matches - and really, it's not impossible to fix that.

However I disagree, Professional Wrestling is less about the individual prowess of individual wrestlers and more about chemistry in the ring and how compelling the two can make the match seem. Hell, you don't even need to show your actual skill when you have a snappy catchphrase like Daniel Bryan. No offense, the guy IS good imo, however he rarely shows anything but kicks and a submission maneuver or two. You see more variety with CM Punk and he has to get over with Mic Skills and mat work alone and people will STILL shit all over him on this board.

Ryback's work isn't atrocious, he just hasn't adapted completely. He's forced to work house matches with the same three or so jobbers when he needs to work on his stamina and how to handle bigger opponents. Honestly for me, Ryback would be the only thing that would tempt me to actually buy a PPV, not 100% though since PPVs always look lackluster from the spoilers.

So in short, Ryback needs a good deal of work so that he can eventually make a credible and compelling main eventer in around 4-8 months, creative needs to give him some credible opponents to work on till then, and maybe cut a promo or two. But even best case scenario, even if he proves able to move well in the ring for 15 minute matches and execute moves superbly, a good chunk of assholes online will find room to bitch.

I mean, they already call Damien Sandow over rated and a rip off, I'm sure Dean Ambrose is a shoo in for the same treatment.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:05 AM   #444 (permalink)
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Default Re: Oh Dear Ryback... [the botches]

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Originally Posted by Deshad C. View Post
Sooo...just to be clear.

People hate Ryback now because...he's not stronger than Goldberg and Cena?

Damn, I didn't know you guys cared so much about how much these guys bench press...
Well said.

When I watched the Tensai vs. Ryback match, it looked fairly clear to me that two things went awry - the first being the technique in which Ryback used to lift Tensai - because as opposed to a simple lift onto the shoulders (of which I'm sure Ryback could have achieved), he instead attempts to utilise an unorthodox technique of lifting, with the arm through the opponents leg, whilst also as a result being slightly off balance when lifting. It's just a recipe for disaster, no matter which Superstar was to perform the same move on Tensai.

Secondly, Tensai clearly didn't jump and leverage himself into a suitable position for Ryback to then follow through with. I would probably be more inclined to blame Tensai than simply Ryback, blaming "a lack of power", when in reality, that is unlikely to be the case.

If Ryback was to perform the FU on Tensai, I'm sure he could accomplish it, because the technique of the FU requires a very simple first stage in the lift. A straight forward carry onto the shoulders. Whereas with Ryback's finisher, there is the awkward hook of the leg, and the lack of balance as a result of the leaning due to the apparent need to grasp in between the opponent's leg.

I just find it slightly stupid how the "IWC" focuses far more upon the negative aspects than that of the positives. Why? Because it's probably easier to bitch and bicker, as opposed to giving credit when and where credit is due unfortunately.

Personally, I'm enjoying watching Ryback. He just needs to slightly alter the manner in which he lifts his opponents - simply tweak the lift to that similar of the FU and F5 - and Ryback will be back on track. I'm not expecting to see 45 minute wrestling classics from Ryback, but what I am hoping for, is variety. It's nice to watch the WWE and see a variety of wrestlers and matches, from the newly inspiring tag team division, to Ryback's crushing victories, to lengthier matches involving Punk (who is a slightly sloppy wrestler if we're going to nitpick like girls) etc.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:04 AM   #445 (permalink)
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Default Re: Oh Dear Ryback... [the botches]

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Originally Posted by THunter View Post
Well said.

When I watched the Tensai vs. Ryback match, it looked fairly clear to me that two things went awry - the first being the technique in which Ryback used to lift Tensai - because as opposed to a simple lift onto the shoulders (of which I'm sure Ryback could have achieved), he instead attempts to utilise an unorthodox technique of lifting, with the arm through the opponents leg, whilst also as a result being slightly off balance when lifting. It's just a recipe for disaster, no matter which Superstar was to perform the same move on Tensai.

Secondly, Tensai clearly didn't jump and leverage himself into a suitable position for Ryback to then follow through with. I would probably be more inclined to blame Tensai than simply Ryback, blaming "a lack of power", when in reality, that is unlikely to be the case.

If Ryback was to perform the FU on Tensai, I'm sure he could accomplish it, because the technique of the FU requires a very simple first stage in the lift. A straight forward carry onto the shoulders. Whereas with Ryback's finisher, there is the awkward hook of the leg, and the lack of balance as a result of the leaning due to the apparent need to grasp in between the opponent's leg.

I just find it slightly stupid how the "IWC" focuses far more upon the negative aspects than that of the positives. Why? Because it's probably easier to bitch and bicker, as opposed to giving credit when and where credit is due unfortunately.

Personally, I'm enjoying watching Ryback. He just needs to slightly alter the manner in which he lifts his opponents - simply tweak the lift to that similar of the FU and F5 - and Ryback will be back on track. I'm not expecting to see 45 minute wrestling classics from Ryback, but what I am hoping for, is variety. It's nice to watch the WWE and see a variety of wrestlers and matches, from the newly inspiring tag team division, to Ryback's crushing victories, to lengthier matches involving Punk (who is a slightly sloppy wrestler if we're going to nitpick like girls) etc.
Oh shut up. Ryback sucks. End of story.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:24 PM   #446 (permalink)
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Default Re: Oh Dear Ryback... [the botches]

What's the betting Ryback's back to squashing 150lb jobbers tonight, to ensure he can actually, you know, pull his finisher off?
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:26 PM   #447 (permalink)
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Default Re: Oh Dear Ryback... [the botches]

"No way, he can't do this, even Ryback isn't this strong?! Oh my, he's done it, he's got Alicia Fox on his shoulders!"
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:35 PM   #448 (permalink)
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Default Re: Oh Dear Ryback... [the botches]

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Originally Posted by dante1st View Post
Oh shut up. Ryback sucks. End of story.
The story is far from ending...give him a break. He deserves the opportunity to show he has what it takes to be a top guy.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:36 PM   #449 (permalink)
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Default Re: Oh Dear Ryback... [the botches]

1. I think they both botched it on Raw

2. Tensai is a fat fuck, so that doesn't help matters either.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:54 PM   #450 (permalink)
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Default Re: Oh Dear Ryback... [the botches]

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Originally Posted by dante1st View Post
Oh shut up. Ryback sucks. End of story.
Wow! What a compelling argument! Do you use that sort of logic when teaching grad school classes?


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