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Old 12-12-2012, 09:03 PM   #8721 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Originally Posted by Crusade View Post
Have you even been reading some of the Punk hater's comments? There are members like roadkill who blame Punk entirely for the ratings going down. That isn't a strawman, it's what people have been saying.



I never said Punk wasn't at fault. I even stated that he isn't a ratings draw . Where have I defended Punk other than saying that it isn't entirely his fault? Punk doesn't draw ratings, I get that. He isn't helping. But the writing around him has also been shockingly awful, the AJ/Cena storyline and the whole AJ scandal has been dreadful and it shows because not even Cena can pull the numbers up in his segment. The WHC storyline has been painfully generic and hasn't been drawing numbers either. None of the top stars right now are drawing anything significantly to suggest that it is entirely Punk's fault or even Punk's fault significantly. If it were, then especially Cena would be drawing significantly more than Punk and the numbers show that he isn't. Yes, I get that Raw for past few months has built round Punk but when even your poster child John Cena can't get the ratings to spike up in a storyline they have been building for months now that suggests that the ratings issue is a much bigger than one just one guy.

It's very easy to scapegoat and point the finger at one individual when in reality the problem is a lot larger than that. And that is what some Punk haters cannot admit: that Punk is only a part of the problem, he isn't the main or the whole issue here.

You could have someone like Austin or Rock in their prime who are two of the biggest draws this business has ever seen but if you don't have the right material behind them then people are simply not going to give a shit.
Some of the posters have terrible takes about CM Punk and go overboard with the hate, I won't deny that. But it's unfair to everyone else to just lump them into the same category as the idiots. It just devalues the entire opposing view in a really lazy and unreasonable way.

It's also just as easy to make excuses than it is to scapegoat.

My problem with this whole argument is this: One side makes a legitimate point or observation, and the other makes excuses for it. Just because "Punk haters" are annoying doesn't make everyone who talks about it a hater. It's constructive criticism.

Personally speaking, I don't want Punk gone, I just think the show's viewership would significantly improve if his reign was ended and they went in another direction with the title and the main storyline. Somehow that equates to being a "hater" though. I think I'm just being realistic. It's simply well past the point where it's "someone else's turn".

As for "the material sucks". . .dude, people have been saying that for years. That hasn't magically manifested itself when Punk got the title, so I don't see why that's suddenly the go to excuse when everyone was bashing Cena to hell and back as needing to be replaced. No one said a damn thing about his "material". It was just the guy. Now it's about the material, not the guy. . .because you guys actually like this particular wrestler.

I already addressed that argument in my last post though. I don't (and most don't) think Punk is the ONLY problem. He's just one of the biggest ones. Punk should always have a role in the show since he's one of the top 10 stars in WWE, it just shouldn't be as big as it is anymore. With guys like Punk, his title reigns shouldn't last more than 3-4 PPVs. He's more interesting chasing the title or being in grudge fueds. Sort of like the way Orton is more interesting chasing than actually being champ.

I don't think Punk is shit or something dude. His role just needs to be reduced for awhile. He's been champ way too long. It's boring now.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:00 PM   #8722 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Originally Posted by The Sandrone View Post
I don't know if it's been said, but it needs to be said because I noticed something about Raw this week that they didn't have last week...

Cody Rhodes Mustache=Ratings!!!!!
I think you're Miztaken. Mr.Sandow was in that segment, normally Mr.Sandow gains 6-8 million viewers, as you have found out in the past. That Mustache is a hell of an anti-draw. Cody can't stop bringing the Sandow down.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:24 PM   #8723 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Originally Posted by NearFall View Post
I think you're Miztaken. Mr.Sandow was in that segment, normally Mr.Sandow gains 6-8 million viewers, as you have found out in the past. That Mustache is a hell of an anti-draw. Cody can't stop bringing the Sandow down.
Holy crap, this is true. I feel like such an ignoramus. I must write Mr. Sandow an apology at once! It may take a little while since he only reads letters over 10,000 words and neatly written (and my handwriting is anything but "neat"), but I must get it done.

Off the topic of the GOAT, when is the breakdown gonna be posted?
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:51 PM   #8724 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

Any ratings breakdown of RAW?
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:26 AM   #8725 (permalink)
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The Vince McMahon/Vickie Guerrero in-ring interaction plus R-Truth vs. Wade Barrett and A.J. Lee running down the aisles and going into the menís locker room lost 41,000 viewers.
The four-way with Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow vs. Usos vs. Primo & Epico vs. Prime Time Players lost 262,000 viewers.
Eve Torres vs. Alicia Fox and the C.M. Punk and Paul Heyman promo gained 223,000 viewers.
Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler gained 201,000 viewers in the 9 p.m. slot.
The Shield interview lost 354,000 viewers.
Alberto Del Rio vs. Zack Ryder gained 114,000 viewers.
A.J. Lee vs. Vickie Guerrero in the 10 p.m. slot gained 115,000 viewers.
Kofi Kingston vs. Antonio Cesaro lost 546,000 viewers.
Miz TV with Sandow & Rhodes gained 169,000 viewers.
John Cena vs. Big Show gained 11,000 viewers.
The overrun, which was the brawl involving The Shield and everyone else, gained 627,000 viewers.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:09 AM   #8726 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinJackal View Post
Some of the posters have terrible takes about CM Punk and go overboard with the hate, I won't deny that. But it's unfair to everyone else to just lump them into the same category as the idiots. It just devalues the entire opposing view in a really lazy and unreasonable way.
Hey I did name an example didn't I?



Quote:
Originally Posted by SinJackal View Post
As for "the material sucks". . .dude, people have been saying that for years. That hasn't magically manifested itself when Punk got the title, so I don't see why that's suddenly the go to excuse when everyone was bashing Cena to hell and back as needing to be replaced. No one said a damn thing about his "material". It was just the guy. Now it's about the material, not the guy. . .because you guys actually like this particular wrestler.
This is true for some Punk fans, however personally I have held the same view for Cena as I held for Punk, so it does not apply for me. Material is hugely important in any wrestling show, if you don't have the material to keep people's interest and intrigue then you are not going to get good ratings regardless. Look at WCW, they had Hogan, Sting and Goldberg who were all proven ratings draws and who were bringing in big numbers in 97-98 with hot angles like the NWO and the Streak. Fast forward only 1-2 years later and the same people are in shows that are drawing nothing above 3.5. If that doesn't prove my point, then nothing ever will.

I did think Cena needed a break for being the champion which will leads to what I'm about to say next.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SinJackal View Post
Personally speaking, I don't want Punk gone, I just think the show's viewership would significantly improve if his reign was ended and they went in another direction with the title and the main storyline. Somehow that equates to being a "hater" though. I think I'm just being realistic. It's simply well past the point where it's "someone else's turn".

I already addressed that argument in my last post though. I don't (and most don't) think Punk is the ONLY problem. He's just one of the biggest ones. Punk should always have a role in the show since he's one of the top 10 stars in WWE, it just shouldn't be as big as it is anymore. With guys like Punk, his title reigns shouldn't last more than 3-4 PPVs. He's more interesting chasing the title or being in grudge fueds. Sort of like the way Orton is more interesting chasing than actually being champ.

I don't think Punk is shit or something dude. His role just needs to be reduced for awhile. He's been champ way too long. It's boring now.
Put this all together because it kinda goes together. I agree the show needs to go in a different direction for sure. It was coming across to me anyway that you didn't like Punk and felt like the ratings would increase if he were gone (ala roadkill, HEELkris etc. short sighted idiots, yeah...sue me guys.) hence my response. I also agree Punk is more interesting chasing than holding the title, I actually said this on another wrestling forum I was once a moderator for some time ago when Punk was a face as the champion. Then the heel turn happened and then ever since then personally, I've found him much more interesting as the champion.

The direction of the company from a ratings standpoint obviously is not working and that includes Punk being champion right now which some Punk marks on here don't want to admit. The reign in my opinion needs to come to an end soon, preferably at the Rumble. This is from a business standpoint, let me make that clear. From a personal standpoint as a fan, purely subjective, I wouldn't mind if Punk went over Rock at the Rumble. If Rock was coming back full time until Mania from the new year then it would be a no brainer to put the title on the Rock till Mania. But since Rock won't be and since whatever program he is in will almost guarantee to draw, and draw more than Punk or Cena could and the fact he'll probably be in the main event of Mania again regardless it leaves it a bit more open for options.

But I think Punk's time is about done as champion anyway. I don't think WWE are going to swerve us at the Rumble by keeping Punk champion.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:36 AM   #8727 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/..._and_More.html

Quote:
- As noted before, the December 10th WWE RAW did a 2.67 rating with 3.76 million viewers, the fourth lowest rating of the past 15 years.

In the segment breakdown, the show opener with Dolph Ziggler, Sheamus and Big Show did a 2.78 opening quarter. The segment with Vince McMahon and Vickie Guerrero plus R-Truth vs. Wade Barrett and the backstage segment with AJ Lee lost 41,000 viewers. The tag team match with Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow vs. The Usos vs. Darren Young & Titus O'Neil vs. Primo & Epico lost 262,000 viewers.

Alicia Fox vs. Eve Torres and the segment with CM Punk and Paul Heyman gained 223,000 viewers. Dolph Ziggler vs. Sheamus gained 201,000 viewers in the 9pm timeslot for a 2.87 quarter rating. The backstage video from Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose and Roman Reigns lost 354,000 viewers. Zack Ryder vs. Alberto Del Rio gained 114,000 viewers. Vickie Guerrero vs. AJ Lee in the 10pm timeslot gained 115,000 viewers for a 2.78 quarter rating.

Antonio Cesaro vs. Kofi Kingston lost 546,000 viewers and did a show-low 2.39 quarter rating. MizTV with The Miz, Rhodes and Sandow gained 169,000 viewers. John Cena vs. Big Show gained 11,000 viewers in the main event, doing a 2.52 quarter rating. This would be among the lowest drawing main events in the last 15 years. The RAW overrun which featured The Shield and everyone else in a big brawl gained 627,000 viewers for a 2.96 overrun rating.

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:20 AM   #8728 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

Quote:
John Cena vs. Big Show gained 11,000 viewers in the main event, doing a 2.52 quarter rating. This would be among the lowest drawing main events in the last 15 years.
Cena and Big Show are such huge draws, guys.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:26 AM   #8729 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

How long was the Cena/show match actually? How much of it was part of overrun?

It seems Cena's drawing abilities are no longer what it used to be.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:31 AM   #8730 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

These numbers show two important things. Firstly Punk isn't that popular seeing as his segment was lower then the opening one and the one directly after his. Plus he was not in the overun /ending which again shows you could have anyone in that slot and they would gain viewers.

And secondly Cena is losing his star power.

Tbh Cena and Punk both have a lot in common. Their characters are stale and boring and they have been forced down peoples throats for years. They are on TV more then anyone else.

If these numbers don't show Vince things need to change then none will.
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