[THANOS]

Originally Posted by Defei

Nash was far more charismatic in his glory days than Punk ever was.

No he wasn't. I can show you ROH promos of Punk better than Nash's best stuff, and that's before he even stepped foot in the wwe.

[THANOS]

Originally Posted by Walk-In

I would say I actually even prefer Kevin Nash over C.M. Punk if we're looking at their careers as a whole. The level of success that Nash achieved in WCW will never be approached by Punk. If anything, Nash is vastly underrated on-line as a talent, both in & out of the ring.

Underrated yes. Nash was very good at what he did, but what he did was very restricted. Sometimes when I look back on his career, especially after watching the nwo dvd, it's easy to see that the storylines around his character constantly were bigger than his talent ever was. Having said that he has definitely had a much better career than Punk for sure, but judging solely on talent level, he's below Punk in every category except look and presence.

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by THANOS

No he wasn't. I can show you ROH promos of Punk better than Nash's best stuff, and that's before he even stepped foot in the wwe.

Promos =/= charisma. Jesus.

[Coffey]

Originally Posted by THANOS

No he wasn't. I can show you ROH promos of Punk better than Nash's best stuff, and that's before he even stepped foot in the wwe.

No you can't because they don't exist. I watched Punk's entire ROH run too, back with his shitty blonde hair & basketball shorts doing Pedigrees off the top rope. He was entertaining & had his moments but to act like anything he did was better than Nash's best stuff is being ridiculous. I don't know if you're a Punk lover, a Nash hater, or both but you're definitely underselling Nash. Hell, other than Punk's shoot promo & maybe yelling at a stripper & calling her a whore, I don't know what even comes into the conversation with Nash's best stuff. Actually, his constant Rumble promos were good but just Paparazzi Productions alone in TNA are better than a lot of the stuff that Punk has done.

[THANOS]

Originally Posted by Starbuck

Promos =/= charisma. Jesus.

Ok how about this. I can show "segments" and matches where Punk shows way more charisma then Nash. Off the top of my head, any from his feud with Raven or Jimmy Rave, and his summer of punk will show that. In WWE his feud with Hardy, royal rumble 2010 appearance, SES, etc.

[THANOS]

Originally Posted by Walk-In

No you can't because they don't exist. I watched Punk's entire ROH run too, back with his shitty blonde hair & basketball shorts doing Pedigrees off the top rope. He was entertaining & had his moments but to act like anything he did was better than Nash's best stuff is being ridiculous. I don't know if you're a Punk lover, a Nash hater, or both but you're definitely underselling Nash. Hell, other than Punk's shoot promo & maybe yelling at a stripper & calling her a whore, I don't know what even comes into the conversation with Nash's best stuff. Actually, his constant Rumble promos were good but just Paparazzi Productions alone in TNA are better than a lot of the stuff that Punk has done.

I listed above various segments I would rate higher than Nash's work and I would like to add Punk's IWA-MS feud with Raven as well where he was cutting promos about airports and on entire audiences in the halls in england.

I loved Nash's segments in Paparazzi Productions and those were definitely entertaining, probably more than anything else he did in his entire as far as pure enjoyment goes, but Punk's best will always overtake Nash's best for me. Call it personal bias if you'd like but I just found it much more entertaining. But again we're talking about overall talent, and I don't think anyone can say Nash had more natural talent than Punk.

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by THANOS

Ok how about this. I can show "segments" and matches where Punk shows way more charisma then Nash. Off the top of my head, any from his feud with Raven or Jimmy Rave, and his summer of punk will show that. In WWE his feud with Hardy, royal rumble 2010 appearance, SES, etc.

You don't 'show' charisma. You either have it or you don't. You're either charismatic or you're not. What you've listed is a bunch of moments you mark out for.

[Choke2Death]

Originally Posted by THANOS

Ok that's just blind hate and you know it. To compare Punk to Diesel in talent is just atrocious posting at its finest. You're really going to tell me that Diesel was ever in his entire career as good as Punk in the ring and on the mic? If you actually believe it then ur just being ridiculous .

As far as drawing as a whole, yes you are correct, without any strong supporting draws to help him Punk can't hold the show to a high rating overall with his two segments a night. What a huge anti-draw !

That other poster was bang on when he compared him to HBK. A similar type of talent for sure.

No, it's not. Diesel is way better on the mic and don't even bring up their confrontations, because Diesel is just not one to use scripts. As for the in-ring stuff, Punk is sloppy as fuck and without a good opponent, he's about as boring to watch as it gets. But with a good opponent, he is capable of having quality matches, that I give him. Diesel is a tall man with fragile quads, I can't really have the same standards for both of them so they're not comparable. That's like expecting Rey Mysterio and The Great Khali to put on good matches of the same quality regardless of opponents even though they couldn't be any more different.

And since Punk is promoted as the top guy (don't tell me it's Cena, he's stuck in some stupid love angle) who always gets the main event spot, it's up to him to keep the numbers up. But look what's happening, viewership continues to decrease at an alarming rate which is a sign of people not being interested in this boring anti-drawing cunt.

And comparing him to HBK is an insult to the Showstopper. Shawn could carry a broomstick to a good match, is a million times better at cutting (heel) promos and has more charisma in his nails than Punk in his entire body. Shawn had attitude, style and personality. Punk sounds like an emo, yelling as loud as he can, trying to get noticed. And yes, I'm specially thinking about that "intense" "I hate you" promo from ROH.

[THANOS]

Originally Posted by Starbuck

You don't 'show' charisma. You either have it or you don't. You're either charismatic or you're not. What you've listed is a bunch of moments you mark out for.

Of course you can "show" charisma. Have you read Jericho's 1st book? The guy wasn't naturally charismatic. It was something he worked on for years before he craeted his lion heart gimmick in wcw and took off. He says that you "can" develop charisma and show it in some instances but not in others. Put it this way, does the ABA gimmick allow Undertaker to show more charisma then his deadman gimmick? The same guy be said about many guys like The Rock, and even Hunter Hearst Helmsley.

[Coffey]

Originally Posted by Choke2Death

No, it's not. Diesel is way better on the mic and don't even bring up their confrontations, because Diesel is just not one to use scripts. As for the in-ring stuff, Punk is sloppy as fuck and without a good opponent, he's about as boring to watch as it gets. But with a good opponent, he is capable of having quality matches, that I give him. Diesel is a tall man with fragile quads, I can't really have the same standards for both of them so they're not comparable. That's like expecting Rey Mysterio and The Great Khali to put on good matches of the same quality regardless of opponents even though they couldn't be any more different.

I think what bothers me most about C.M. Punk is that it is painfully obvious that he is about as far away from an athlete as you can be. Like, everything he does is awkward. Run, jump, etc. He's just an awkward kind of guy. You can tell that he's a book geek that probably didn't play a lot of sports. Meanwhile, although limited by his size, Nash did play ball & was at least an athlete prior to getting into wrestling.

It's why a lot of the stuff that Punk does, like his top rope elbow, look so funky & awkward. It bothers me because it looks more like he's role-playing being a wrestler instead of feeling like a wrestler. I don't have the suspension of disbelief that I should for his matches.