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Old 12-05-2012, 07:22 PM   #8411 (permalink)
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Don't sit here and tell me that you can refute the inring comparison because you don't feel it's fair. You're either good in the ring or you're not. The Big Show is even bigger than Nash and in his prime was twice or more the inring talent than Nash ever was. Saying Shawn is that much better than Punk is another example of blindly disregarding a wrestler you hate's ability. Punk is probably better than HBK ever was on the mic, and isn't too far behind him in charisma either. Hbk has him beat easily in the ring but Punk's a lot more comparable with him then with Kevin Nash. Their skill sets are a lot more alike than that of Nash.

As far as you shitting on the ROH Raven promo and comparing it to an emo screaming to get attention. Well I'm afraid we'll have to just agree to disagree there because that's one of the most passionate and intense story driven promos I've ever seen, so we'll never agree on him as a mic worker if that's your feelings on it.
But it is NOT fair. When you are taller, it's a lot harder to move and they wrestle different styles. To go back to the comparison I made, you can't hate on The Great Khali's limitations just because he can't move as fast as Rey Mysterio. You have to have a criteria for each category. But for Diesel's size, I think he's been a decent in-ring competitor in his peak.

How am I "blindly disregarding" Punk's abilities? You do realize it's SHAWN MICHAELS we're talking about, right? A top 10 great so it's not like Punk should be embarrassed just because he doesn't possess 1/10th of Shawn's talent. And I disagree completely. Shawn's 1997 heel promos or the ones with Hulk Hogan are better than anything that ever came out of Punk's mouth. And I can't even compare them when it comes to charisma because Punk simply doesn't have much. It's covered up by how much of a loudmouth he is, though. Shawn oozed charisma just by walking down the ramp.

And yes, whatever you say on the last part. To me, I see no intensity. When I see that Punk promo, he sounds like an emo who just had a terrible breakup with the only ever person who wanted to be his significant other and that has made him a depressed screamer.

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I think what bothers me most about C.M. Punk is that it is painfully obvious that he is about as far away from an athlete as you can be. Like, everything he does is awkward. Run, jump, etc. He's just an awkward kind of guy. You can tell that he's a book geek that probably didn't play a lot of sports. Meanwhile, although limited by his size, Nash did play ball & was at least an athlete prior to getting into wrestling.

It's why a lot of the stuff that Punk does, like his top rope elbow, look so funky & awkward. It bothers me because it looks more like he's role-playing being a wrestler instead of feeling like a wrestler. I don't have the suspension of disbelief that I should for his matches.
Agreed completely. Have you seen him do a Dropkick? Or Jericho's Springboard Dropkick? Or the more usual Suicide Dive? His execution of those moves is extremely awkward. Compare his Suicide Dive to Benoit or D-Bryan's and they'll wipe the floor with his version. Or look at Ziggler/Orton/Bob Holly do a Dropkick then look at Punk. (hell, Punk did it once in a match with Ziggler which takes guts since Ziggler makes his look like shit)

It's like he's jogging when he should be running as much as he can. I guess he needs to trim some of that fat and spend a bit of time inside the gyms instead of reading comic books.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:23 PM   #8412 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

And for the record, if I had to choose I'd take Punk over Nash because Nash bores the hell out of me. I do find it ironic though that Punk took the piss out of Nash about his knees and people changing the channel when he's on the TV and now he's out with a bum knee and driving away viewers faster than it takes Nash to blow a quad. DAT CLIQUE.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:24 PM   #8413 (permalink)
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No, it's not. Diesel is way better on the mic and don't even bring up their confrontations, because Diesel is just not one to use scripts. As for the in-ring stuff, Punk is sloppy as fuck and without a good opponent, he's about as boring to watch as it gets. But with a good opponent, he is capable of having quality matches, that I give him. Diesel is a tall man with fragile quads, I can't really have the same standards for both of them so they're not comparable.
of all the things you could say as a punk hater this is the probably the most stupid one, I have nothing against you hating punk with all your guts, that's your issue, but seriously?, you can't compare nash with punk on the ring because "it's not fair?", how much completely biased could you ever be?, so you have standards according to which wrestlers you like against the ones you don't, good, glad we could take that out of the system and glad you just exposed yourself as borderline troll

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But for Diesel's size, I think he's been a decent in-ring competitor in his peak.
no he wasn't for christs sake if you compare 2 wrestlers, you do it by all of their qualities, and even in his prime Nash was horrendous on the ring
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:25 PM   #8414 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Eh, I love Punk but HBK is easily more charismatic. HBK is better than Punk in the ring by default simply because very few could ever touch HBK's in ring performance skills. Mic skills I would give to Punk but its not as clear cut as you claim it to be. Punk is definitely more comparable to HBK than Nash though.

Nash definitely has more of a presence, better look and arguably has more star power. But Nash's star power in my mind comes from the people in his career he was surrounded with, especially Hall and Hogan. Nash had more star power and was more of a draw with the NWO than he ever was in his entire career. Put him on his own and his star power diminishes and is only there now because of Nostalgia.

Charisma is not the same as mic skills. Punk easily beats out Nash on the mic department. Its not even close. Name me one memorable promo Nash has ever cut because I can't think of any and I can think of quite a few for Punk just off the top of my head. In terms of charisma however Nash does beat out Punk. And remember this coming from someone who loves Punk and is not a fan of Nash's by any means.

Comparing Punk to Nash in terms of in ring performance however is a joke. Punk is one of the best in the ring in WWE today. Nash's only really good matches were with HBK who can't have a bad match to save his life.
You were obviously born in 2004.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:27 PM   #8415 (permalink)
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You were obviously born in 2004.
No actually I was very much alive when he was in WCW and I've watched back at some of his WWE run as well. Try again.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:27 PM   #8416 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Eh, I love Punk but HBK is easily more charismatic. HBK is better than Punk in the ring by default simply because very few could ever touch HBK's in ring performance skills. Mic skills I would give to Punk but its not as clear cut as you claim it to be. Punk is definitely more comparable to HBK than Nash though.

Nash definitely has more of a presence, better look and arguably has more star power. But Nash's star power in my mind comes from the people in his career he was surrounded with, especially Hall and Hogan. Nash had more star power and was more of a draw with the NWO than he ever was in his entire career. Put him on his own and his star power diminishes and is only there now because of Nostalgia.

Charisma is not the same as mic skills. Punk easily beats out Nash on the mic department. Its not even close. Name me one memorable promo Nash has ever cut because I can't think of any and I can think of quite a few for Punk just off the top of my head. In terms of charisma however Nash does beat out Punk. And remember this coming from someone who loves Punk and is not a fan of Nash's by any means.

Comparing Punk to Nash in terms of in ring performance however is a joke. Punk is one of the best in the ring in WWE today. Nash's only really good matches were with HBK who can't have a bad match to save his life.
Great post! It's always good to have this conversation with a poster who understands due care. A lot of what you say is rational and argued very well. I can't really debate any of it to be honest lol. We each have our own rating systems and may not agree with some things but I can respect your unbiased approach.

Many really good talking points in here about the entire NWO storyline and what it essentially did for the Nash character. Can't disagree with any of it.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:28 PM   #8417 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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of all the things you could say..
Pretty sure his entire point is that it's hard to compare styles, which is true. A big man style, like say One Man Gang, is going to be vastly different than that of a technician, like Chris Benoit. Just like a slow, plodding, Terminator that can't be stopped (Nash offense) is going to differ from Punk, so they are hard to compare. It's not like Punk is going to work like a big man & do falling tree spots or David Vs. Goliath matches.

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Old 12-05-2012, 07:29 PM   #8418 (permalink)
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Nash's voice is as slow and monotone as they come. He could be narrating a story about the most exciting thing on earth and he'd still make it sound boring as fuck.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:29 PM   #8419 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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And for the record, if I had to choose I'd take Punk over Nash because Nash bores the hell out of me. I do find it ironic though that Punk took the piss out of Nash about his knees and people changing the channel when he's on the TV and now he's out with a bum knee and driving away viewers faster than it takes Nash to blow a quad. DAT CLIQUE.
Well done! : I laughed.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:30 PM   #8420 (permalink)
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I didn't think anybody laughed at Big Sexy quad jokes anymore.......
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