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Old 12-05-2012, 06:34 PM   #8401 (permalink)
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No he wasn't. I can show you ROH promos of Punk better than Nash's best stuff, and that's before he even stepped foot in the wwe.
No you can't because they don't exist. I watched Punk's entire ROH run too, back with his shitty blonde hair & basketball shorts doing Pedigrees off the top rope. He was entertaining & had his moments but to act like anything he did was better than Nash's best stuff is being ridiculous. I don't know if you're a Punk lover, a Nash hater, or both but you're definitely underselling Nash. Hell, other than Punk's shoot promo & maybe yelling at a stripper & calling her a whore, I don't know what even comes into the conversation with Nash's best stuff. Actually, his constant Rumble promos were good but just Paparazzi Productions alone in TNA are better than a lot of the stuff that Punk has done.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:37 PM   #8402 (permalink)
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Promos =/= charisma. Jesus.
Ok how about this. I can show "segments" and matches where Punk shows way more charisma then Nash. Off the top of my head, any from his feud with Raven or Jimmy Rave, and his summer of punk will show that. In WWE his feud with Hardy, royal rumble 2010 appearance, SES, etc.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:43 PM   #8403 (permalink)
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No you can't because they don't exist. I watched Punk's entire ROH run too, back with his shitty blonde hair & basketball shorts doing Pedigrees off the top rope. He was entertaining & had his moments but to act like anything he did was better than Nash's best stuff is being ridiculous. I don't know if you're a Punk lover, a Nash hater, or both but you're definitely underselling Nash. Hell, other than Punk's shoot promo & maybe yelling at a stripper & calling her a whore, I don't know what even comes into the conversation with Nash's best stuff. Actually, his constant Rumble promos were good but just Paparazzi Productions alone in TNA are better than a lot of the stuff that Punk has done.
I listed above various segments I would rate higher than Nash's work and I would like to add Punk's IWA-MS feud with Raven as well where he was cutting promos about airports and on entire audiences in the halls in england.

I loved Nash's segments in Paparazzi Productions and those were definitely entertaining, probably more than anything else he did in his entire as far as pure enjoyment goes, but Punk's best will always overtake Nash's best for me. Call it personal bias if you'd like but I just found it much more entertaining. But again we're talking about overall talent, and I don't think anyone can say Nash had more natural talent than Punk.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:44 PM   #8404 (permalink)
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Ok how about this. I can show "segments" and matches where Punk shows way more charisma then Nash. Off the top of my head, any from his feud with Raven or Jimmy Rave, and his summer of punk will show that. In WWE his feud with Hardy, royal rumble 2010 appearance, SES, etc.
You don't 'show' charisma. You either have it or you don't. You're either charismatic or you're not. What you've listed is a bunch of moments you mark out for.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:50 PM   #8405 (permalink)
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Ok that's just blind hate and you know it. To compare Punk to Diesel in talent is just atrocious posting at its finest. You're really going to tell me that Diesel was ever in his entire career as good as Punk in the ring and on the mic? If you actually believe it then ur just being ridiculous .

As far as drawing as a whole, yes you are correct, without any strong supporting draws to help him Punk can't hold the show to a high rating overall with his two segments a night. What a huge anti-draw !

That other poster was bang on when he compared him to HBK. A similar type of talent for sure.
No, it's not. Diesel is way better on the mic and don't even bring up their confrontations, because Diesel is just not one to use scripts. As for the in-ring stuff, Punk is sloppy as fuck and without a good opponent, he's about as boring to watch as it gets. But with a good opponent, he is capable of having quality matches, that I give him. Diesel is a tall man with fragile quads, I can't really have the same standards for both of them so they're not comparable. That's like expecting Rey Mysterio and The Great Khali to put on good matches of the same quality regardless of opponents even though they couldn't be any more different.

And since Punk is promoted as the top guy (don't tell me it's Cena, he's stuck in some stupid love angle) who always gets the main event spot, it's up to him to keep the numbers up. But look what's happening, viewership continues to decrease at an alarming rate which is a sign of people not being interested in this boring anti-drawing cunt.

And comparing him to HBK is an insult to the Showstopper. Shawn could carry a broomstick to a good match, is a million times better at cutting (heel) promos and has more charisma in his nails than Punk in his entire body. Shawn had attitude, style and personality. Punk sounds like an emo, yelling as loud as he can, trying to get noticed. And yes, I'm specially thinking about that "intense" "I hate you" promo from ROH.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:52 PM   #8406 (permalink)
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You don't 'show' charisma. You either have it or you don't. You're either charismatic or you're not. What you've listed is a bunch of moments you mark out for.
Of course you can "show" charisma. Have you read Jericho's 1st book? The guy wasn't naturally charismatic. It was something he worked on for years before he craeted his lion heart gimmick in wcw and took off. He says that you "can" develop charisma and show it in some instances but not in others. Put it this way, does the ABA gimmick allow Undertaker to show more charisma then his deadman gimmick? The same guy be said about many guys like The Rock, and even Hunter Hearst Helmsley.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:58 PM   #8407 (permalink)
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No, it's not. Diesel is way better on the mic and don't even bring up their confrontations, because Diesel is just not one to use scripts. As for the in-ring stuff, Punk is sloppy as fuck and without a good opponent, he's about as boring to watch as it gets. But with a good opponent, he is capable of having quality matches, that I give him. Diesel is a tall man with fragile quads, I can't really have the same standards for both of them so they're not comparable. That's like expecting Rey Mysterio and The Great Khali to put on good matches of the same quality regardless of opponents even though they couldn't be any more different.
I think what bothers me most about C.M. Punk is that it is painfully obvious that he is about as far away from an athlete as you can be. Like, everything he does is awkward. Run, jump, etc. He's just an awkward kind of guy. You can tell that he's a book geek that probably didn't play a lot of sports. Meanwhile, although limited by his size, Nash did play ball & was at least an athlete prior to getting into wrestling.

It's why a lot of the stuff that Punk does, like his top rope elbow, look so funky & awkward. It bothers me because it looks more like he's role-playing being a wrestler instead of feeling like a wrestler. I don't have the suspension of disbelief that I should for his matches.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:01 PM   #8408 (permalink)
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No, it's not. Diesel is way better on the mic and don't even bring up their confrontations, because Diesel is just not one to use scripts. As for the in-ring stuff, Punk is sloppy as fuck and without a good opponent, he's about as boring to watch as it gets. But with a good opponent, he is capable of having quality matches, that I give him. Diesel is a tall man with fragile quads, I can't really have the same standards for both of them so they're not comparable. That's like expecting Rey Mysterio and The Great Khali to put on good matches of the same quality regardless of opponents even though they couldn't be any more different.

And since Punk is promoted as the top guy (don't tell me it's Cena, he's stuck in some stupid love angle) who always gets the main event spot, it's up to him to keep the numbers up. But look what's happening, viewership continues to decrease at an alarming rate which is a sign of people not being interested in this boring anti-drawing cunt.

And comparing him to HBK is an insult to the Showstopper. Shawn could carry a broomstick to a good match, is a million times better at cutting (heel) promos and has more charisma in his nails than Punk in his entire body. Shawn had attitude, style and personality. Punk sounds like an emo, yelling as loud as he can, trying to get noticed. And yes, I'm specially thinking about that "intense" "I hate you" promo from ROH.
Don't sit here and tell me that you can refute the inring comparison because you don't feel it's fair. You're either good in the ring or you're not. The Big Show is even bigger than Nash and in his prime was twice or more the inring talent than Nash ever was. Saying Shawn is that much better than Punk is another example of blindly disregarding a wrestler you hate's ability. Punk is probably better than HBK ever was on the mic, and isn't too far behind him in charisma either. Hbk has him beat easily in the ring but Punk's a lot more comparable with him then with Kevin Nash. Their skill sets are a lot more alike than that of Nash.

As far as you shitting on the ROH Raven promo and comparing it to an emo screaming to get attention. Well I'm afraid we'll have to just agree to disagree there because that's one of the most passionate and intense story driven promos I've ever seen, so we'll never agree on him as a mic worker if that's your feelings on it.
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Reigns is like a Michael Bay movie. It looks good and there's lots of explosions but there's no substance and after it wears out its one trick, you see it for what it is.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:05 PM   #8409 (permalink)
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Of course you can "show" charisma. Have you read Jericho's 1st book? The guy wasn't naturally charismatic. It was something he worked on for years before he craeted his lion heart gimmick in wcw and took off. He says that you "can" develop charisma and show it in some instances but not in others. Put it this way, does the ABA gimmick allow Undertaker to show more charisma then his deadman gimmick? The same guy be said about many guys like The Rock, and even Hunter Hearst Helmsley.
Jericho also thinks he can put people over and make them stars. Just because he said it doesn't mean it's true. You take a guy who has that IT factor and put them into situations where their natural charisma shines through and that's how you create stars and get them over. Charisma isn't something you switch on for certain moments and then switch off for others. You're talking about getting different gimmicks to click with different people at different stages in their careers but the end result is always the same. When they found what worked for them, their natural charisma shone through because they were naturally charismatic people.

You're also confusing mic work and promos for charisma which isn't true but has unfortunately come to be taken for granted on this forum. Examples of great promos aren't indicative of someone showing charisma. Stone Cold could drink a six pack of bud and flip the bird without saying a single word and it would pop an entire arena because Steve Austin is charismatic as fuck and he was established in that character base. I don't know what you're trying to prove with the Taker example either. Taker as the ABA or the Deadman is still charismatic as hell. The only difference is that with the latter comes that special mystique and presence of the Deadman due to the nature of his character, something the ABA couldn't provide because he was presented as a human character just like everybody else.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:10 PM   #8410 (permalink)
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Don't sit here and tell me that you can refute the inring comparison because you don't feel it's fair. You're either good in the ring or you're not. The Big Show is even bigger than Nash and in his prime was twice or more the inring talent than Nash ever was. Saying Shawn is that much better than Punk is another example of blindly disregarding a wrestler you hate's ability. Punk is probably better than HBK ever was on the mic, and isn't too far behind him in charisma either. Hbk has him beat easily in the ring but Punk's a lot more comparable with him than was Kevin Nash. There's skill sets are a lot more alike than that of Nash.

As far as you shitting on the ROH Raven promo and comparing it to an emo screaming to get attention. Well I'm afraid we'll have to just agree to disagree there because that's one of the most passionate and intense story driven promos I've ever seen, so we'll never agree on him as a mic worker if that's your feelings on it.
Eh, I love Punk but HBK is easily more charismatic. HBK is better than Punk in the ring by default simply because very few could ever touch HBK's in ring performance skills. Mic skills I would give to Punk but its not as clear cut as you claim it to be. Punk is definitely more comparable to HBK than Nash though.

Nash definitely has more of a presence, better look and arguably has more star power. But Nash's star power in my mind comes from the people in his career he was surrounded with, especially Hall and Hogan. Nash had more star power and was more of a draw with the NWO than he ever was in his entire career. Put him on his own and his star power diminishes and is only there now because of Nostalgia.

Charisma is not the same as mic skills. Punk easily beats out Nash on the mic department. Its not even close. Name me one memorable promo Nash has ever cut because I can't think of any and I can think of quite a few for Punk just off the top of my head. In terms of charisma however Nash does beat out Punk. And remember this coming from someone who loves Punk and is not a fan of Nash's by any means.

Comparing Punk to Nash in terms of in ring performance however is a joke. Punk is one of the best in the ring in WWE today. Nash's only really good matches were with HBK who can't have a bad match to save his life.
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