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Old 11-08-2012, 06:54 PM   #7641 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

If CM Punk wasn't champion or even on TV would the ratings be lower? Probably not.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:20 AM   #7642 (permalink)
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lol, you bastard, I looked at that for like 30 seconds before realizing nothing was going to happen.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:58 AM   #7643 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Sandrone View Post
Gotta love how when Punk is in a match/segment with Cena/pretty much anyone, it's all Cena's/their doing doing, but when Ryback is, he's suddenly a ratings success. And now he's apparently getting credit for a strong HIAC buyrate? I like Ryback, but the HIAC buyrate had as much to do with Punk as Ryback, not to mention the fact for the first time ever (I think) it was 6 weeks after the previous PPV, which I'm sure had something to do with it.

Personally I consider both of them draws on about the same level (for different reasons of course), but I do have to lol at the attempts to overlook whenever Punk may have influence on the main event, including this week, including last last... hell including the last several weeks. But then Ryback gets credit when he's been just as inconsistent (gains one week, loses the next, etc.)
I usually give credit to the bigger star, most pushed guy, or guy who usually pulls ratings regardless of who he's put against. Then of course, on occaision. . .rare occaision, you can credit the storyline if it's a good one.

When did Ryback actually lose ratings since being put in the main event btw? The only time I remember him losing ratings on Raw was when WWE ran some Susan G Komen for the Cure commercial and a diva's segment right after Ryback's match and the tally was done for that block of 3 segments, not just Ryback's match.

I didn't see the HIAC buyrate, but I assume people are crediting him more than Punk since every PPV Punk has main evented when not against Cena (excluding this last one) has been lower than the normal buyrate. So if it suddenly does well, it's hard not to look at the other guy since the common denominator with Punk main eventing has been lowish buyrates unless against Cena.

But I do agree that it's stupid to credit solely one guy. In this case in particular, obviously Ryback isn't going to get huge ratings and huge buys if he went against someone like Health Slater at HIAC instead of CM Punk. Though Slater hasn't has Punk's push or had the title for a year.
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:09 AM   #7644 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

The guy challenging tor the title should always be credited more than the champion. There is always more money to be made when a babyface chases the champion.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:27 PM   #7645 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by murder View Post
The guy challenging tor the title should always be credited more than the champion. There is always more money to be made when a babyface chases the champion.
So you're saying Flair wasn't the draw back during his heel dominance with the NWA title? Hmm......
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:39 PM   #7646 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SinJackal View Post
I didn't see the HIAC buyrate, but I assume people are crediting him more than Punk since every PPV Punk has main evented when not against Cena (excluding this last one) has been lower than the normal buyrate. So if it suddenly does well, it's hard not to look at the other guy since the common denominator with Punk main eventing has been lowish buyrates unless against Cena.
Unless Cena was involved in the match, Punk (as WWE Champion) hasn't main evented a PPV since TLC 2011, and only once in 2011 without Cena before that...it's all been Cena, Cena, Cena, Cena, and more fucking Cena, with a bit of Triple H ego massaging thrown in. Here's a rundown of PPV main events since Punk's win against Cena at MITB last year...

Money In The Bank 2011 - John Cena vs CM Punk
Summerslam 2011 - John Cena vs CM Punk
Night Of Champions - Triple H vs CM Punk (No DQ match, won by the momentum killer Triple H ...also worth noting that John Cena won the WWE Championship in the match just before it)
Hell In A Cell 2011 - John Cena vs CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio Triple Threat Cell Match.
Vengeance 2011 - John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio Last Man Standing match
Survivor Series 2011 - John Cena & The Rock vs Awesome Truth
TLC 2011 - CM Punk vs The Miz vs Alberto Del Rio TLC Match
Royal Rumble 2012 - Royal Rumble Match (Surprisingly, neither John Cena nor Triple H were in the actual Royal Rumble Match. But as WWE Champion, neither was CM Punk)
Elimination Chamber 2012 - John Cena vs Kane Amubulance Match
Wrestlemania 2012 - John Cena vs The Rock ('Once in a lifetime!' )
Extreme Rules 2012 - John Cena vs Brock Lesnar
Over The Limit 2012 - John Cena vs John Laurinaitis
No Way Out 2012 - John Cena vs Big Show (Steel Cage Match)
Money In The Bank 2012 - Raw Money In The Bank Ladder Match (featuring, and won by John Cena)
Summerslam 2012 - Triple H vs Brock Lesnar

Then after that...

Night Of Champions 2012 - John Cena vs CM Punk

and (as we all already know), the only reason he wasn't in the Hell In A Cell main event was because of his injury. As the WWE champion, Punk's only main evented 1 PPV without Cena being in the match, and only 2 when Cena was in the match (Summerslam 2011, Night Of Champions 2012). Really unfair to say he's been responsible for any lower buyrates asides from (maybe) TLC 2011.
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:37 PM   #7647 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxieDogg View Post
Unless Cena was involved in the match, Punk (as WWE Champion) hasn't main evented a PPV since TLC 2011, and only once in 2011 without Cena before that...it's all been Cena, Cena, Cena, Cena, and more fucking Cena, with a bit of Triple H ego massaging thrown in. Here's a rundown of PPV main events since Punk's win against Cena at MITB last year...

Money In The Bank 2011 - John Cena vs CM Punk
Summerslam 2011 - John Cena vs CM Punk
Night Of Champions - Triple H vs CM Punk (No DQ match, won by the momentum killer Triple H ...also worth noting that John Cena won the WWE Championship in the match just before it)
Hell In A Cell 2011 - John Cena vs CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio Triple Threat Cell Match.
Vengeance 2011 - John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio Last Man Standing match
Survivor Series 2011 - John Cena & The Rock vs Awesome Truth
TLC 2011 - CM Punk vs The Miz vs Alberto Del Rio TLC Match
Royal Rumble 2012 - Royal Rumble Match (Surprisingly, neither John Cena nor Triple H were in the actual Royal Rumble Match. But as WWE Champion, neither was CM Punk)
Elimination Chamber 2012 - John Cena vs Kane Amubulance Match
Wrestlemania 2012 - John Cena vs The Rock ('Once in a lifetime!' )
Extreme Rules 2012 - John Cena vs Brock Lesnar
Over The Limit 2012 - John Cena vs John Laurinaitis
No Way Out 2012 - John Cena vs Big Show (Steel Cage Match)
Money In The Bank 2012 - Raw Money In The Bank Ladder Match (featuring, and won by John Cena)
Summerslam 2012 - Triple H vs Brock Lesnar

Then after that...

Night Of Champions 2012 - John Cena vs CM Punk

and (as we all already know), the only reason he wasn't in the Hell In A Cell main event was because of his injury. As the WWE champion, Punk's only main evented 1 PPV without Cena being in the match, and only 2 when Cena was in the match (Summerslam 2011, Night Of Champions 2012). Really unfair to say he's been responsible for any lower buyrates asides from (maybe) TLC 2011.
Quite well laid out.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:09 PM   #7648 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Originally Posted by KO Bossy View Post
Quite well laid out.
Oh, it's absolutely frightning when you look back at the last 3 years and see how much Cena has been rammed down everybody's throats and dominated the PPV main event scene during this so called 'PG Era'....even when he's not actually competing in the main event (such as when he was drafted into The Nexus), he's always heavily involved in the main event of the PPV anyway . I went back 1 more year, this is what the PPV main events were.

Money In The Bank 2010 - John Cena vs Sheamus
Summerlam 2010 - Team WWE (led by John Cena) vs The Nexus
Night Of Champions 2010 - John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Wade Barrett vs Edge vs Chris Jericho 6-Pack Challenge
Hell In A Cell 2010 - The Undertaker vs Kane (The last time the WHC belt main evented a PPV and was placed higher up the card than Cena. Presumably only because they realised that having Undertaker in a Cell match was a possible draw though)
Bragging Rights 2010 - Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (w/ John Cena. The match was more focused around Cena than the WWE Championship as the stipulation was that Cena would be fired if Barrett lost the match. Cena attacked Wade Barrett causing Orton to lose via disqualification)
Survivor Series 2010 - Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (w/ John Cena as the Special Referee. The match was more focused around Cena than the WWE Championship as the stipulation was that Cena would be fired if he didn't help Barrett win the match. Orton won, Cena was 'fired'....but was back a couple of weeks later )
TLC 2010 - John Cena vs Wade Barrett Chairs Match (in which Wade was literally 'buried' underneath a ton of chairs. His career's never really recovered from it )
Royal Rumble 2011 - Featuring John Cena
Elimination Chamber 2011 - John Cena vs CM Punk vs John Morrison vs Sheamus vs Randy Orton vs R-Truth No.1 WWE Championship Contender Elimination Chamber Match
Wrestlemania 27 - John Cena vs The Miz
Extreme Rules 2011 - John Cena vs The Miz vs John Morrison Triple Threat Cage Match
Over The Limit 2011 - John Cena vs The Miz 'I Quit' match
Capitol Punishment 2011 - John Cena vs R-Truth

I haven't seen such consistent ridiculously strong pushing of any wrestler over a prolonged period of time since Hogan and Savage back in the 1980's, and obviously back then the entire wrestling landscape was different, with Hogan and Savage and Andre being HUGE draws and those around them like DiBiase, Ricky Steamboat, Jake Roberts, Rick Rude etc. still being massively popular, as well as kayfabe still being alive and as well as plenty of adults still not realising that the outcomes of the matches were all scripted. Why Vince thinks that what worked back then will work now, I don't know.

Either way, as far as PPV buyrates falling in recent years go, most PPVs have always been sold on the strength of their main events. The only person who's name I've seen consistently involved with almost every PPV main event in 2010, 2011 and 2012 (this year) is Cena. Go figure. Crazy to think that only back in 2009, CM Punk was actually main eventing PPVs in World Heavyweight Championship matches with Jeff Hardy and The Undertaker and nowadays the WHC belt has been devalued to almost nothing and Punk as WWE Champion has always been booked below Cena on the card, unless Cena's competing for the WWE Championship himself or not on the card at all
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:08 AM   #7649 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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So you're saying Flair wasn't the draw back during his heel dominance with the NWA title? Hmm......
Of course but it takes two to draw. In this case, the babyfaces Luger, Steamboat and Sting chasing the heel champion Flair is what drew back then.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:31 PM   #7650 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by murder View Post
Of course but it takes two to draw. In this case, the babyfaces Luger, Steamboat and Sting chasing the heel champion Flair is what drew back then.
Except Flair drew huge crowds against nobodies in several territories as the NWA champ... people paid to see Flair get his ass kicked. That was the draw. Granted, you want both the face and heel to be draws, but of the two the most important factor is the heel. You can last forever with a heel champion giving up rare wins. It makes you want to watch... after a few years of a super baby face beating all the odds, people stop caring. There is no intensity or drama. Even Hogan started to wane at points and you'd see him drop the title in some fashion from time to time.

What really seems to work best though, are heels that can win cleanly, but aren't afraid to cheat in some matches when they might lose and mix that with a more pissed off, harder edged face that can lose often enough. It lets teh audience hate the heel not only for cheating to win, but knowing full well he really is that damn good to win cleanly and all the while lets them actually connect to the face since he isn't some super clean unrealistic super hero that only little kids can latch onto.

People like to think Rock and Austin were only big because of certain elements, but it was the fact they were dynamic characters that believably could take each other to the limit. Same with HHH, Foley, Taker, HBK, Hart... you could believe any of them winning and you didn't know what to expect day in or day out because there was no "well, he always overcomes the odds...". Austin got his ass handed to him quite a few times... and Foley more than was probably necessary
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