[Fall of Arcadia]

Originally Posted by roadkill_

Some remarkable similarities with the end of WCW;

1) Not promoting PPV's, even in the run-in show
2) Going to three hours
3) Bringing in celebs for quick-fixes
4) Bringing in has-beens for quick fixes
5) Killing momentum of guys who are clearly over - Daniel Bryan was the most over behind Rock at WM. Fail.

There's just a lack of passion behind almost everything that we see on the show, it's gone on for far too long and it needs to change, CM Punk is practically the only one delivering passion in his promo's...

[4hisdamnself]

Cena and UFC killed Wrestling

[MarkOut4Barrett]

Originally Posted by 4hisdamnself

Cena and UFC killed Wrestling

UFC, really?

[The German Suplex]

Originally Posted by roadkill_

Some remarkable similarities with the end of WCW;

1) Not promoting PPV's, even in the run-in show
2) Going to three hours
3) Bringing in celebs for quick-fixes
4) Bringing in has-beens for quick fixes
5) Killing momentum of guys who are clearly over - Daniel Bryan was the most over behind Rock at WM. Fail.

I see the similarities but the WWE now doesn't have the competition WCW had. TNA isn't big enough of a threat to put the WWE in danger, which basically means that mainstream wrestling/sports entertainment has to die completely to put WWE out of business.

As for point 5, while I agree that the "18 seconds" decision was terrible and a slap in the face for everyone that wanted to see DB at the "biggest stage of them all", Bryan's reaction grew enormously immediately after the match and probably was at an all time high the Raw after WM. So I think, per accident, they didn't kill his momentum and Bryan probably would be less prominent on Raw if this never happened.

[Interceptor88]

Originally Posted by HOV

I agree, 2006 had the rise of RVD, Edge and the return of ECW. It all looked rosey. As for 2007, the Great Khali, Chris Benoit, Donald Trump its hard to specify what went wrong.

2006: Young and really charismatic newcomers like Carlito, Mr.Kennedy, CM Punk and MVP. Legit uppercarder/main eventer talent like Edge, Jeff Hardy, John Cena, Rey Mysterio and Orton were still very young, and a great crop of stars headed by the enshrined veterans Shawn Michaels, Undertaker and Triple H. Also Batista, Booker, RVD, Kurt Angle, Kane, Finlay, Regal, Matt Hardy...

You cannot compare. Now there are people that think McGillicutty and Kofi are amazing. That says a lot about how standards have dropped.

[roadkill_]

Originally Posted by The German Suplex

I see the similarities but the WWE now doesn't have the competition WCW had. TNA isn't big enough of a threat to put the WWE in danger, which basically means that mainstream wrestling/sports entertainment has to die completely to put WWE out of business.

As for point 5, while I agree that the "18 seconds" decision was terrible and a slap in the face for everyone that wanted to see DB at the "biggest stage of them all", Bryan's reaction grew enormously immediately after the match and probably was at an all time high the Raw after WM. So I think, per accident, they didn't kill his momentum and Bryan probably would be less prominent on Raw if this never happened.

I'm talking about the weeks following WrestleMania. When Rock was on RAW afterwards, the YES chants were deafening, not since SCSA has a wrestler solicited such a response with a one-word catchphrase. What did WWE do? Bury Bryan, effectively. They realistically should've had Bryan vs a heel Cena by the Royal Rumble. This would've worked. But they buried him, pushed CM Punk who hasn't got 30% of Bryans charisma and are still milking Super Cena. This reminds me on WCW burying Goldberg and pushing Jeff Jarrett and Kevin Nash.

[NearFall]

Originally Posted by roadkill_

Some remarkable similarities with the end of WCW;

1) Not promoting PPV's, even in the run-in show
2) Going to three hours
3) Bringing in celebs for quick-fixes
4) Bringing in has-beens for quick fixes
5) Killing momentum of guys who are clearly over - Daniel Bryan was the most over behind Rock at WM. Fail.

That list is shockingly true. Especially the Daniel Bryan part. CM Punk at MITB 2011 or Rock whenever/wherever was the only pop/chants in the past 3 or so years, similar to the ones Bryan had for WEEKS after WrestleMania.

Originally Posted by roadkill_

I don't want to watch CM Punk. He doesn't look like a wrestler. His promos are annoying as fuck - and I don't mean good heat. Beyond that its not just a kids show now, its a show for dumb kids who need special attention in class.

"I don't want to watch CM Punk." Unfortunately, a lot of casuals have also adopted that mindset. I am not blaming Punk entirely for the ratings, but he is not helping like a champion should help. I put it down to two things really, personal charisma and presentation. Punk was never portrayed as being that charismatic good good guy when he was a face like Cena. He was more a Cena-lite. And the fact he never even main evented as a champion has cost them dearly. The audience don't care about Punk since he has been treated second best as champion.I never had the "look like a wrestler" opinion/argument, but I can understand where it comes from. As for his promos, I am feeling the same to be honest. The only good one he has had in weeks was with Vince McMahon. I waited for his promo work to evolve above just the respect stuff but nothing has happened. Hopefully they add more layers to his promos in the next few weeks. But I doubt it. Either Punk wins and we get respect stuff, or RyBack wins and we get "FEED ME MORE" and Respect stuff.

[WTFWWE]

Don't know why my thread was merged with the ratings thread at all.

[Shawn Morrison]

personally i think they are working much harder with the booking, but 3 hours is just too much. I enjoy the show and find it entertaining, but 3 hours is too damn exhausting, if only they'd book 2 hours with as much effort. Also, i like the low ratings, encourages them to do better. One thing i really DONT want however is for them to start thinking they have to bury Punk just because of the ratings, that sort of mindset is what makes me want to kill Vince.

Originally Posted by NearFall

That list is shockingly true. Especially the Daniel Bryan part. CM Punk at MITB 2011 or Rock whenever/wherever was the only pop/chants in the past 3 or so years, similar to the ones Bryan had for WEEKS after WrestleMania.

"I don't want to watch CM Punk." Unfortunately, a lot of casuals have also adopted that mindset. I am not blaming Punk entirely for the ratings, but he is not helping like a champion should help. I put it down to two things really, personal charisma and presentation. Punk was never portrayed as being that charismatic good good guy when he was a face like Cena. He was more a Cena-lite. And the fact he never even main evented as a champion has cost them dearly. The audience don't care about Punk since he has been treated second best as champion.I never had the "look like a wrestler" opinion/argument, but I can understand where it comes from. As for his promos, I am feeling the same to be honest. The only good one he has had in weeks was with Vince McMahon. I waited for his promo work to evolve above just the respect stuff but nothing has happened. Hopefully they add more layers to his promos in the next few weeks. But I doubt it. Either Punk wins and we get respect stuff, or RyBack wins and we get "FEED ME MORE" and Respect stuff.

i honestly don't think the ratings have a single thing to do with Punk. Punk is one of the only entertaining parts of Raw and his promos are the best heel mic work i've seen in ages, the casuals watch just because they want someone to shut him up or beat him (what a heel's supposed to make the casuals feel like). Also, 3 hours is the reason of all this, put this Cm Punk and this much effort into booking a two hour show and ratings would get better.

[vanboxmeer]

As long as that spoiled, shrill, selfish, conceited Connecticut trust-fund cunt is heading Team Steph and having the type of ideas as shoehorning her self-insert manic pixie girl into top angle after top angle instead using that time to develop other more deserving and better payoff talents, the core problems will still remain.