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Old 10-03-2012, 06:02 PM   #6621 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
I think the point Tnmore is trying to make is that the main event feud is the main feature and focus of the show and it therefore props everything else around it up. When your main program isn't doing the business then naturally, everything else is going to blow chunks. The vast majority of people don't tune in to see the midcard acts because they're just that, midcard acts. People tune in for the 'main event' of the show with all the other feuds seen as sort of, extras I suppose and that's especially true in today's WWE where the main event is the only thing that gets any progression week to week if even. The main event program gets the major timeslots on the show in order to give Raw as a whole a chance to make better gains and get a better overall rating. More people tend to be watching at the start, at 9pm, at 10pm and at the end so segments are strategically placed to maximize viewership. The stronger the main event program and the people in it, the stronger the rating. The weaker the main event program and the people in it, the weaker the rating. That's why a lot of times we see breakdowns and overall ratings only to find out that a certain segment propped up a particular hour and impacted upon the show rating overall. Of course, it takes 2 people to have a feud and right now Punk isn't feuding with anybody. However, when Cena was around, their segments were still sucking and dropping every week anyways. People have been tuning out of the midcard acts for years now but now more so than ever. The difference is, more people were watching the main event program, whatever it happened to be, so the overalls weren't that bad. Now, less people are tuning in to even watch the main feud in the company so how can the 'extras' or midcard acts be expected to do any better?

Regardless of whether it involves Punk or not, when the main feud/segment on the show peaks at 4.2 million viewers (which it did last week iirc) then you have a serious problem. I just don't get how anybody can then go and claim that that makes whoever a draw. It doesn't. Overall viewership is at its highest when there is more than 1 thing to tune in for. When there isn't and there is only 1 main feud, that takes the responsibility of propping up the rest of the show as the central and focal point of that show. If that feud is failing to produce the goods then the rest is almost doomed to fail. If people aren't even bothering to tune in to watch John Cena or CM Punk feud over the WWE title, why in the hell are they going to bother tuning in for Kofi Kingston or Tyson Kidd in a match that means absolutely nothing?
I get the points he was trying to make. The thing is, if Punk's segments gain viewer, and everyone else's segments lose them, how is it Punk's fault? Should the blame be placed on, you know the people involved in the segments that lost viewers? How can you blame the guy who brought in viewers for other people losing them? It'd be like blaming an MLB pitcher for losing a game when every ball that was hit was a pop fly and the fielders dropped it. He doesn't have any control over what they're capable of, so how can it be his fault?

I never said Punk was some mega draw who could bring in a million viewers in each segment he's in. Then again, I don't think Rock vs Brock given away free on Raw with 6 months of hype could bring in that many people. Why? Because the interest for the product isn't there in the first place.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:04 PM   #6622 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

KO Bossy pretty much the one making the most sense in this thread. Fact of the matter is a decent amount of people on here hate or love a guy and will try and use whatever numbers they can just to make a opinion a universal fact which is stupid. The idea of solely blaming one person for the success or failure of the entire show is just wrong. Saw the example get brought up of Rock/Cena feud not bringing in the ratings it should have and that was not only the focus of Raw but billed as the biggest match ever and had a year long build. Yet not many people will dare blame that on them esp in the case of Rock. If your logic is whoever is the main focus of the show is the sole or majority reason to blame even if their segments did good in the ratings then don't be subjective about it and just twist and turn it depending on who you like or dislike.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:05 PM   #6623 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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You're right, of course. It's kinda sad, because I'm a huge fan of Punk, Bryan, Ziggler, etc, and I'm turned off the product even as they're getting main event slots and big pushes, just because the product is in a huge creative morass and showing no signs of getting out of it. I can't imagine what it's like for a "casual" fan who only invests in the surface level of WWE. Especially now when there's so much genuinely outstanding TV available on-demand that they could watch instead.
I just happened to be watching Raw with my dad in the room this week. Punk/JR was on at that particular time and what did he think about it? Why the hell is this guy talking to the commentator about respect? That's what he said. Admittedly I lol'd but if that doesn't give some insight into a casual fans perspective then I don't know what will. And he isn't even a casual fan. He just knows the main guys because I've been watching all my life and happens to catch the show whenever I have it on in the same room. Is that what most other people are thinking when they're watching these Punk vs. Legend promos? If it is then is it any wonder nobody is bothering to tune in and the regular weekly viewership number is dropping as every week passes by.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:08 PM   #6624 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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KO Bossy, bringing logic to this thread as usual. It's really very simple to understand. No matter how well someone who's a draw does for a segment in the breakdown (and I'm not saying Punk is/isn't a draw, just to make that point as it's irrelevant whether he draws or not), as long as WWE puts out shit like what KO Bossy described, people will tune out in droves and the average for Raw will decrease severely. Now if it was Cena/Taker/HHH out there in those times besides Punk, would that segment do a lot better? Would the overall number be that much better? Let's just use this as an example:

Q1: 4,000,000
Q2: 3,600,000
Q3: 3,300,000
Q4: 3,100,000
Q5: 3,800,000
Q6: 3,600,000
Q7: 3,300,000
Q8: 3,000,000
Q9: 3,400,000
Q10: 3,300,000
Q11: 3,100,000
Q12: 2,900,000
Overrun: 4,100,000

Let's pretend for a second that is a Raw breakdown (realistic or unrealistic is irrelevant). The average viewership number for that is 3,423,000 (rounded). Now let's say HHH was there, and was in Q5 and the OR. Let's say Q5 and the overrun did 500,000 more than it did in that breakdown (which is more than it'd probably be anyway, but let's just keep it rolling). The average rating, despite those vastly increased numbers only goes up to 3,500,000. Let's even say HHH did a million better in each segment than Punk would. The average would be about 3,576,000, only 150,000 more than Punk. Now granted this isn't factoring in advertising for HHH, which would cause more people to tune in initially, but that is a whole other thing. This is assuming that they appear on the fly for a 15 minute segment, which is what's the case with Punk most of the time anyway. But even if they did advertise HHH for the show, it would just cause more people to watch his segment, but not necessarily the rest of the show, which is still the problem.

Hopefully that clears it up for some people. Even if Punk is 2-3 of the major key points, it's not like anyone else, even those who are draws, would be able to impact the show's overall rating that much if they were in his place. What makes this especially true is WWE is predictable, even I'm sure the casuals notice bigger things happen at the start of the show, at the turn of the hours and at the end of the show, so they'd know to only tune in at those points anyway.

KO Bossy's point (at least from what I got) wasn't that Punk is some super draw, just that he's not responsible for the show's decline solely. It's the filler crap that people will tune out during, not Punk (most of the time).
But thats not how it works. Your analysis is flawed. You cannot randomly add up 500k to a quarter and claim this is what would have happened. Thats stupid(no offense).

Lets say either Cena/Taker/HHH/Rock/Brock is advertised for the RAW for the main event angle, then the shows opens with strong viewership, the usual drop occurs in the segments following that, picks back up by 9pm, drops, picks up by 10 and then the final gain at the overrun. The viewership average and the Rating will majorly depend on the overall the show started with. The gains at the key quarters are gonna happen regardless because people are conditioned to these key quarters. This is the reason the champion is usually blamed for low ratings/viewership. Do you see people making excuses for Shawn Michaels 1996? or Kevin Nash 1995 rating? like you're doing here "oh hey look at this quarter michaels gained, look nash gained at 10 pm, what a mega-draw!".

The focus of the entire show on Punk, he is the champion and the main angle and the show does lowest viewership in 15 years two weeks in a row. Like I said earlier, you can blame the booking all you want, come up all sorts of excuses it doesnt change the fact people dont wanna see him as a top guy. He is being forced on them and now you see the result. Vince needs to the take the title off him ASAP. Maybe if Ryback takes the title after squashing him, maybe then the viewership/rating will go back up to normal levels.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:14 PM   #6625 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Really? That's interesting you brought that up.

April 23rd, 2012-go home show for ER. Edge telling John Cena he needs to beat Brock on Sunday opens up the show. A Hall of Famer and your top guy in the company, the proven ratings draw. Quarter hour-2.60, at the time one of the worst of the year.

That defeats your theory, evidently.
Another worthy post. That was one night deal, three hours for RAW was not regular as it is now. Completely different.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:14 PM   #6626 (permalink)
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I just happened to be watching Raw with my dad in the room this week. Punk/JR was on at that particular time and what did he think about it? Why the hell is this guy talking to the commentator about respect? That's what he said. Admittedly I lol'd but if that doesn't give some insight into a casual fans perspective then I don't know what will. And he isn't even a casual fan. He just knows the main guys because I've been watching all my life and happens to catch the show whenever I have it on in the same room. Is that what most other people are thinking when they're watching these Punk vs. Legend promos? If it is then is it any wonder nobody is bothering to tune in and the regular weekly viewership number is dropping as every week passes by.
Heh, the family perspective is always fun. I remember last year, my dad (who used to watch a bit of WWF back in the Hogan years, and bits of it over the years whenever I'd have it on, and some World of Sport too) was watching a Smackdown main event with me - Sheamus/Henry, I think. About halfway through the match, he just walked out. I asked him why later, and he said "Well, the commentators weren barely paying attention to the match, so why should I?" There are all these things that we're so used to (and used to complaining about) that we probably forget are a huge turn off to fairweather or potential new fans.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:21 PM   #6627 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Heh, the family perspective is always fun. I remember last year, my dad (who used to watch a bit of WWF back in the Hogan years, and bits of it over the years whenever I'd have it on, and some World of Sport too) was watching a Smackdown main event with me - Sheamus/Henry, I think. About halfway through the match, he just walked out. I asked him why later, and he said "Well, the commentators weren barely paying attention to the match, so why should I?" There are all these things that we're so used to (and used to complaining about) that we probably forget are a huge turn off to fairweather or potential new fans.
I watched Mania 28, with my dad in the room again, a few weeks back and he found Show vs. Cody absolutely fucking hilarious because Cody was getting his ass kicked by this huge guy. He legit at that match lol. It was nuts. He joked about with the rest of the matches. Then when the HIAC came on he completely shut up, went silent and pretty much lost himself in the spectacle of it all which I teased him about of course because he teases me for watching in the first place lol. Then he fucked off for the rest of the show and came back to see Rock vs. Cena at the end. He's a Rock fan and acts like he's been there all along. Still calls it WWF too lol.

@Tnmore - I don't think taking the title off Punk will change anything. He isn't helping matters but I don't think he's making them drastically worse either. Their entire approach to the title and their stars needs an overhaul. Taking the belt off him and giving it to Cena is a short term solution.

@Bossy - I don't actually think you do tbh. I'm not being a dick when I say that either. You can blame the midcard, sure. But they don't get any focus or time afforded to them to give them purpose or to give people a reason to want to watch them. That's why people tune out during those segments and will continue to tune out until the opposite occurs. Or you can blame the main segment of the show that is receiving all the focus and all the time because it's the main portion of the show, the promoted portion of the show and essentially THE thing that is supposed to make people want to watch in the first place. Or you can blame them both which is the best option if you ask me. I'm not solely blaming Punk and I never have. But he isn't helping matters...at all. Sure, the segments he's in are gaining viewers but you're giving credit for taking one step forward and two steps back. Your MLB comparison doesn't fly either because you're presuming that the pitchers are all on an equal level when that isn't the case when it comes to main event stars and midcard stars in WWE. It's more like a star player hits every ball while a bunch of no namers strike out every time...just like they were expected to do. In the same example, the star player isn't even that much of a star either. It's not the same thing.

PS - Both of you keep it civil plz.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:25 PM   #6628 (permalink)
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Didn't you think 4.7 million viewers equalled a 4.7 rating when you read that chart somebody posted yesterday? Yeah, I really wouldn't go preaching about people knowing nothing about ratings if I were you. Just saying.
No, I didnt read the chart correctly I saw the 1000 episodes headlined and I saw 4.7 as the highest as if it's a two hour show for that episode. I just toke a blink look and post it as fast as I can, then he replied and I realised it was about the last 10 shows. For a fact, I exposed other wrestlers drawing ability, so yes I know what I'm talking. I bet you didn't know that the 3 hours show never did good even in the past right. Just saying.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:29 PM   #6629 (permalink)
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No, I didnt read the chart correctly I saw the 1000 episodes headlined and I saw 4.7 as the highest as if it's a two hour show for that episode. I just toke a blink look and post it as fast as I can, then he replied and I realised it was about the last 10 shows. For a fact, I exposed other wrestlers drawing ability, so yes I know what I'm talking. I bet you didn't know that the 3 hours show never did good even in the past right. Just saying.
You exposed them did you? No, I didn't know that.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:29 PM   #6630 (permalink)
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Default Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

Attitude era breakdowns would show an increase of viewership throughout the show with big gains in the 10pm/ovverrun. Rarely lost viewers in any segment, and if they did it was very little.

Focus was on the midcard and main event.

The current notion that the mainevent is all that matters is what is hurting them.
They buried everyone to benefit the main angle and people don't have a reason to sit through 3 hours of shit for 20 minutes worth watching.
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