[#Mark]

Taker is still a monster draw.

[Gamblor]

And here's for the overrun:

8/27: 479,000 (3.35)- Punk/Lawler
8/20: 446,000 (3.36)- Punk/Cena/Lawler
8/13: 817,000 (3.44)- Lesnar/HBK
8/6: 345,000 (3.27)- Cena/Bryan
7/30: 1,181,000 (3.86)- Cena/Show w/ Punk
7/23: 389,000 (4.43)- Punk/Cena w/ Show-Rock
7/16: 719,000 (3.99)- Punk/Show w/ Cena
7/9: 711,000 (??)- Punk-AJ/Bryan-Eve
7/2: 684,000 (3.47)- Cena-Punk/Bryan-Show-
6/25: 567,000 (3.57)- Cena/Jericho
6/18: 573,000 (3.74)- Cena/Laurniatis-Otunga
6/11: 721,000 (3.99)- Vince/Laurniatis/Cena/Show
6/4: 299,000 (3.14)- Cena/Cole
5/21: 878,000 (3.49)- John Cena and Sheamus vs. Tensai, Jack Swagger and Dolph Ziggler in the Lumberjack Match
5/14: 990,000 (3.43)- Cena/Laurinaitis
5/7: -105,000 (2.94)- Punk/Bryan-Tensai
4/30: 578,000 (3.49)- Cena/Laurinaitis/Tensai
4/23: 873,000 (3.83)- Lesnar/Cena
4/16: 319,000 (3.42)- Cena/Tensai
4/9: 301,000 (3.42)- Cena/Otunga w/ Lesnar
4/2: 1,036,000 (3.9)- Lesnar Return
3/26: 626,000 (3.57)- Rock/Cena
3/19: 597,000 (3.32)- Taker/HHH/HBK
3/12: 509,000 (3.51)- Rock concert
3/5: 763,000 (3.57)- Rock/Cena
2/27: 643,000 (3.53)- Rock
2/20: 601,000 (3.31)- Battle Royal for WWE Title match at WM
2/13: 505,000 (3.14)- Cena/Ryder/Kane
2/6: 443,000 (3.42)- Jericho vs. Punk vs. The Miz vs. R-Truth vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston
1/30: 753,000 (??)- HHH/Laurnaitis/Undertaker
1/23: 761,000 (3.54)- Punk/Laurnaitis
1/16: 817,000 (3.32)- Punk, Bryan and Chris Jericho vs. Mark Henry, David Otunga and Ziggler plus the segment with Punk, Foley and John Laurinaitis
1/9: 640,000 (2.84)- Cena/Ziggler plus Cena/Kane/Ryder parking lot
1/2: 543,000 (3.26)- Cena/Kane

One loss which was Punk vs. Bryan/Tensai. Not good in the slightest but if I remember correctly Punk/Tensai was advertised and Bryan was only put in as the match was about to start. And Punk/Tensai had no business happening anyway.

Highest besides Raw 1,000 was a tie between Punk/Show with Cena teasing a cash-in on Raw 999 and the Vince/Laurinaits/Cena/Show segment before NWO.

Lowest rating was for 1/9/12, and lowest gain was Cena/Cole 6/4.

Look at the losses before each 10pm segment.
That is why it's a bit unfair to look at the rating or judge one person on the entire rating since it is the sum of all the quarters. If Punk and Jericho followed 2 huge losses in viewers then I would say their gain/rating is more impressive.

Then again you could make the argument that the only reason they got 800k viewers was because of the huge loses before the 10pm segment

Yeah, there's no perfect way to determine who draws what and if it was a big success or not. If a big gain comes after a big loss, people will say it's because of the big loss. If a big gain comes after a number of gains, people will say it's just people tuning in some by some. There will always be some reason why the rating wasn't a success. Even the Rock/Cena stuff could get ragged on for being lower than the Taker/HBK/HHH stuff which were in the 10PM slot. But of course, when Taker/HBK/HHH was in the overrun, it did worse than any of the Rock/Cena stuff.

So all in all, it's just a giant headache.

[Loader230]

Highest besides Raw 1,000 was a tie between Punk/Show with Cena teasing a cash-in on Raw 999 and the Vince/Laurinaits/Cena/Show segment before NWO

No, it was John cena as the MITB winner. Punk/Show match had a low gain boosted once Cena entered.

C.M. Punk vs. Big Show gained 325,000 viewers and the post-match with Cena teasing cashing in the briefcase gained 719,000 viewers.

[Wrestlinfan35]

Originally Posted by Loader230

No, it was John cena as the MITB winner. Punk/Show match had a low gain boosted once Cena entered.

Wrong, it's not a low gain. Punk/Show started in Q8 and went pretty far into the overrun. 300k in a random quarter is very impressive, that's all Punk/Show. The overrun gaining 700k is Punk, Show and Cena. Overall, that match with the Cena promo gained 1 million viewers.

[Rock316AE]

From the quote earlier, that was in April about the gains and overall audience:

Originally Posted by Rock316AE

Think about it like this, if Vince was in the ring promoting a Austin segment in 98, Austin comes out, do his promo, do a huge gain, then the Blue Meanie comes out for the top of the hour timeslot and gain another 5k because it's almost impossible to lose in that TV slot for any show(*almost*, like Punk proved in the past), you want to give Blue Meanie a credit for a big quarter? you know the answer.

The point of that is when people pretending that X person drew Y number of people for the segment when in fact, he had nothing to do with it because the audience was there before his segment and a bigger X would have done a bigger number than he did in Z time slot. There are people who bring the overall up and there's people who are just "there" taking a TV spot in that specific show. Which is why you can't call a 148k gain in the top of the hour a huge success for the people in it even if it did a 5.0.

Anyway, in the peak years, the pattern was always a huge gain in the second quarter, a complete opposite from the pattern that started in mid-late 2010 that this spot is mostly a killer.

[Gamblor]

Okay, the gain was for the overrun and it was Punk/Show w/ Cena announcing cash in. Punk/Show went into the overrun, which is why it's included. It's speculation it was all on Cena cashing in, granted it probably was for the most part. But Punk/Show gained 300,000 and then with the overrun I'm sure without Cena they would've gained another 200,000-300,000.

[Loader230]

Originally Posted by Wrestlinfan35

Wrong, it's not a low gain. Punk/Show started in Q8 and went pretty far into the overrun. 300k in a random quarter is very impressive, that's all Punk/Show. The overrun gaining 700k is Punk, Show and Cena. Overall, that match with the Cena promo gained 1 million viewers.

How is it impressive when Cena/Tensai main event match gained 520k only a couple of weeks before that? Not to mention Cena/Show gain over 1 million. In comparison, Punk/tensai match actually lost viewers.

[Wrestlinfan35]

Originally Posted by Loader230

How is it impressive when Cena/Tensai main event match gained 520k only a couple of weeks before that? Not to mention Cena/Show gain over 1 million. In comparison, Punk/tensai match actually lost viewers.

If you read my post, it's impressive for a random quarter. The gains you mentioned were all in the overrun. For Show vs. Punk to gain that much in Q8 is impressive. The 700k gain was for the overrun.

[Loader230]

Cena/Tensai was not the overrun. It was Q8.

[Gamblor]

Originally Posted by Rock316AE

From the quote earlier, that was in April about the gains and overall audience:


The point of that is when people pretending that X person drew Y number of people for the segment when in fact, he had nothing to do with it because the audience was there before his segment and a bigger X would have done a bigger number than he did in Z time slot. There are people who bring the overall up and there's people who are just "there" taking a TV spot in that specific show. Which is why you can't call a 148k gain in the top of the hour a huge success for the people in it even if it did a 5.0.

Anyway, in the peak years, the pattern was always a huge gain in the second quarter, a complete opposite from the pattern that started in mid-late 2010 that this spot is mostly a killer.

But at the same time, people would've tuned out if they didn't want to see the following segment, and people wouldn't of watched. If people kept watching for Blue Meanie, then by all means give Blue Meanie credit for keeping the interest. If he's with Austin, at least he wasn't an anti-draw.

I get your point, but it's just as flawed as basing things based off of the overall number. Raw 1,000 proves this. There was no massive gains besides the 9pm from what I remember, but even the lowest quarter hour can be considered a success to some degree as they kept more than the average number of people watching (average compared to an ordinary Raw, not Raw 1,000).

Of course if a segment loses 800,000 viewers, even if the overall rating was still high it could be considered a success or failure depending on how you look at it. There are so many different variables to consider when saying a segment is a success or not. Punk/Henry gained, and KEPT the viewers from the previous segment. That's why it's a success. Had it lost 800,000 viewers, it wouldn't have had that high of a rating.

But it's all just a giant mind fuck. You have to consider everything and every reason the viewers might've tuned in. Even Punk on commentary for the Show/Cena main event, which I know you would never do. I mentioned this but Punk's presence surely added to the match. Do I think Cena/Show would've been a success without Punk? Absolutely I do. Do I think Punk added to the success? Yes I do, and I most certainly don't think he deterred on it. It wasn't like he was just sitting on a chair at ringside. He was doing commentary, and some people may have found that a reason to watch the match.

But yeah... a whole lot of stuff to consider. I'm not saying your view is wrong, just that it's flawed (and I'm not saying mine isn't flawed), but it all just goes in a circle.