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post #5311 of 9175 (permalink) Old 08-17-2012, 11:58 PM
Vince gives me a comedy gimmick
 
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

Orton's had 5 or 6 years of a hardcore push, dat ..... should be drawing just as well as Cena by now.
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post #5312 of 9175 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 12:12 AM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

Let's not pretend that Punk got a 3 weeks push. He got endless programs since 2006, 2 MITBs, programs with ALL the big stars of the last decade(Batista/Cena/Orton/Hardy/Mysterio/Taker/HHH/Edge/JBL...), 5-6 titles, leader of two stables etc. In fact, he got more than most ever got and they were much more successful than he is. Why? because they had the "IT" factor, the marketability and the talent to attract the masses, he is currently 7 years in the company, his status and impact in the wrestling business is non-exist which should tell you everything. He will never be the guy, a top draw or carry a brand. The best move for a guy like him is to save money while he can still be active full time, from all his talk about retirement, I can see him working two more years, in that time he should be careful because after that he will not be able to work for big money again like other wrestlers who came back as an attraction to special events.

Anyway, I heard Diesel in this thread, the house shows business, gates revenue and some of the PPVs actually increased during his run. Besides, even in 1995 PPVs were doing better than today. If you take out a successful WM from their page now, they're 20 levels below the red line. The Kevin Nash WWF Timeline interview was awesome BTW, best ever along with Cornette's 1997. You really get the perspective on how things have changed from that time where wrestlers were men working 2 shows a day on the road in their car to the "grateful to be there" kids we have in the locker room today. Completely different world and shows you how Vince is able to manipulate them today like puppets to the point where he can steal money from their pocket and they didn't even notice. Back then when a wrestler heard that someone in the same position on the card got a bigger payday, he will demand the same from Vince. Like the HBK SVS 1995 story Nash told. In general, Nash is money, funny/honest and always great to hear. If you travel from arena to arena 24/7/365 in the wrestling industry, you want to travel with Nash. Probably can make it bearable.




If you never watched a timeline, start with Nash(95)and Cornette(97). And if you watched, you know when the 1998 Cornette comes out?

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post #5313 of 9175 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 01:06 AM
Vince gives me a comedy gimmick
 
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Originally Posted by Rock316AE View Post
Let's not pretend that Punk got a 3 weeks push. He got endless programs since 2006, 2 MITBs, programs with ALL the big stars of the last decade(Batista/Cena/Orton/Hardy/Mysterio/Taker/HHH/Edge/JBL...), 5-6 titles, leader of two stables etc. In fact, he got more than most ever got and they were much more successful than he is. Why? because they had the "IT" factor, the marketability and the talent to attract the masses, he is currently 7 years in the company, his status and impact in the wrestling business is non-exist which should tell you everything. He will never be the guy, a top draw or carry a brand. The best move for a guy like him is to save money while he can still be active full time, from all his talk about retirement, I can see him working two more years, in that time he should be careful because after that he will not be able to work for big money again like other wrestlers who came back as an attraction to special events.

Anyway, I heard Diesel in this thread, the house shows business, gates revenue and some of the PPVs actually increased during his run. Besides, even in 1995 PPVs were doing better than today. If you take out a successful WM from their page now, they're 20 levels below the red line. The Kevin Nash WWF Timeline interview was awesome BTW, best ever along with Cornette's 1997. You really get the perspective on how things have changed from that time where wrestlers were men working 2 shows a day on the road in their car to the "grateful to be there" kids we have in the locker room today. Completely different world and shows you how Vince is able to manipulate them today like puppets to the point where he can steal money from their pocket and they didn't even notice. Back then when a wrestler heard that someone in the same position on the card got a bigger payday, he will demand the same from Vince. Like the HBK SVS 1995 story Nash told. In general, Nash is money, funny/honest and always great to hear. If you travel from arena to arena 24/7/365 in the wrestling industry, you want to travel with Nash. Probably can make it bearable.




If you never watched a timeline, start with Nash(95)and Cornette(97). And if you watched, you know when the 1998 Cornette comes out?
Same can be said for Orton though. Orton's been getting a hardcore push since 03-04 and still isn't a ratings draw.

You also fail to recognize that Punk (and Orton) are monster merch sellers. Lastly, Punk had an on and off push for majority of his tenure before the Summer of Punk. You shouldn't say he was getting a consistently big push because that just isn't the case.
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post #5314 of 9175 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 01:11 AM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

We need The-Rock-Says to make some more jokes. I love his gimmick of mocking Rock fans.
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post #5315 of 9175 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 01:14 AM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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I'm at least happy that some of us here are humble enough to say "you know what? I love X superstar and that segment he did was shit." You can acknowledge when they're not doing their best work, instead of just saying "X was involved, that makes it amazing" or "X was involved, it was terrible". AKA blind devotion and blind hate. Its so damn irritating sometimes. The Bryan marks have been getting to me lately, especially.
I agree, but I think what happens, especially with a guy like Punk who isn't quite where he should be yet to a lot of people (Undisputed number 1 guy), they want him to succeed. And so they'll try to find any little thing they can to rationalize why Punk isn't responsible for that segment drawing poorly and the other guy is, or WWE is, or whatever. Sometimes though it's just bad advertising on WWE's part. I'm not sure where they advertised Punk/Show besides I think on SD (not sure where I read it, but I know I read it). But why didn't they make that match the week prior on Raw? AJ comes out or they do a quick backstage skit where AJ announces it to open the show up? I don't know if it would've made a major difference, but it would've been better to have that on top of the advertising they did.

Same thing happened with Lesnar/HHH last week. Now granted it did still get the highest number of the night, but the gain still felt underwhelming, and I'd like to believe as a Lesnar mark that the reason it didn't gain more was because of little to no advertising. But like I said, they got the highest number last week, and the overrun got the highest number this week so maybe they just capped out on what they could do and advertising wouldn't of helped. But who knows?

But yeah, I'd say those are valid reasons why those two portions of the show didn't do as well as they maybe could've. But I still did and will admit again that the fact Punk/Show pulled out THAT LOW of a quarter hour isn't good at all in the slightest for either man or the feud, regardless of how bad the advertising was. Even with little to no advertisement, with internet and modern technology word of mouth spreads quickly, and if people heard that Taker was making his entrance to the ring, especially with how long his entrance is , I'm sure people would've tuned in and it would've gotten a higher rating. I'm sure that's what happened the last 3-hour Raw before it became permanent, the one Vince was on where his appearance wasn't advertised to be at the start of the show, but it was and it drew well. So the fact Punk and Show couldn't do that shows they really aren't proven draws yet. They draw, but just not on "that" level yet. They just aren't consistent.

I'm watching you...



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post #5316 of 9175 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 02:43 AM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

Punk marks act like they don't care about what his timeslots do in ratings. When Punk doesn't do a great number they come in here saying "I don't care, ratings aren't everything and it doesn't make a wrestler good or bad" When Punk is in a segment that does a good rating "Punk segment did an amazing number, this is a great sign" And as Starbuck says when his segment does a bad rating they're in here defending him and blaming other people, but when his segment does great they can't wait to break out the champagne.
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post #5317 of 9175 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 02:55 AM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Same can be said for Orton though. Orton's been getting a hardcore push since 03-04 and still isn't a ratings draw.

You also fail to recognize that Punk (and Orton) are monster merch sellers. Lastly, Punk had an on and off push for majority of his tenure before the Summer of Punk. You shouldn't say he was getting a consistently big push because that just isn't the case.
Orton had more than enough success in his run, was the biggest ratings draw in the business, headlined a successful WM, drew on PPV, drew on house shows, he did everything in that push he got, this is not the same situation. Orton currently, wasn't the focus of the show for more than a year, or even had a serious program, when he gets that position again on RAW, we can talk about his rating ability.

The average of merchandise is down(and by a pretty big gap IIRC from the last WWE report), so Punk, or Orton for that matter. Can sell and be on the top of the list, but if the overall is down? What two years ago would have been top 10 in amount, can be top 3 today.

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post #5318 of 9175 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 10:50 AM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Same can be said for Orton though. Orton's been getting a hardcore push since 03-04 and still isn't a ratings draw.

You also fail to recognize that Punk (and Orton) are monster merch sellers. Lastly, Punk had an on and off push for majority of his tenure before the Summer of Punk. You shouldn't say he was getting a consistently big push because that just isn't the case.
Lol, you explained and answered pretty much everything with few sentences.

Punk doesn't get the complete push because when he's about to be something big WWE stops his push. Just like after his feud with Jeff Hardy (which was great) it ended after him for no logical reason against Taker, same thing goes with Trips it ended pretty fast as Trips buried all of his momentum that he had. Saying he's not marketable is stupid as you can easily prove it, he's standing toe to toe with Cena in WWEshop. Maybe he's not a big draw but his segments does pull off good numbers.
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post #5319 of 9175 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 02:51 PM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

Don't you see that is a bit hypocritical to say Punk has not been pushed when you have a SIG showing him taking out the rock? Who else has done that in past 10 years?

Sorry but some of the Punk defence brigade really are scrapping the barrel. Punk has been starting and ending the shows since the last ppv, even being then main focus on 1000th episode. Going into the 3rd biggest ppv and he is posing bad ratings. If he is doing that after everything what makes you think he will post higher ratings if he continues to be the focus?

Wwe have done everything they could for him. Its not their fault nobody gives a shit about him...
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post #5320 of 9175 (permalink) Old 08-18-2012, 03:33 PM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

It's all about consistency... I mean, the WWE fucked up the Summer of Punk with their ridiculous booking. They should have ridden Punk fully instead of trying to give Punk to HHH/Nash and the title to Del Rio. At this point, the WWE has done so much damage to their creative image that I don't think that the Rock will be able to do the numbers they'd hope for. People expect everything to be flubbed now and they just don't turn in like they used to. Why get your hopes up anymore?

Thanks for the wonderful memories Ultimate Warrior... happy you got to be recognised as the legend you are before you went. Rest in peace
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