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Old 09-30-2011, 05:10 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Triple H Help or Hurt CM Punk?

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Originally Posted by jblvdx View Post
Who should be the focus of the show in your opinion? Punk or HHH, because for some reason WWE feel HHH should be the center of the show when he's over 40 years old, past his prime and hardly wrestles anymore.

It was HHH's and creatives fault. If WWE wanted Punk to be this rebel figure, YOU TURN YOUR AUTHORITY FIGURE INTO A HEEL, not portray the authority figure as some angel otherwise the anti-authority figure just looks like some teenage punk. If HHH wanted to create a new bone-a-fied star he should of took it upon himself to get the face over by turning heel.
Jesus christ man. Have patience for fuck sake. the storyline is far from over. Turn HHH heel just like that? he is not your fucking zack ryder.

Do you even realise heel HHH could be cheered over a babyface punk?

Not many casuals care about punk even after the shoot.
Proof - Ratings.

So you have a guy who is not a effective babyface and HHH who is so fucking popular, how do you think this will end?

The reason hhh won at NOC is coz this storyline has to continue & so he needed the win.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:12 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Triple H Help or Hurt CM Punk?

You guys are hurting yourselves for overly analyzing something that isn't even over yet.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:14 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Triple H Help or Hurt CM Punk?

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Originally Posted by jblvdx View Post
Who should be the focus of the show in your opinion? Punk or HHH, because for some reason WWE feel HHH should be the center of the show when he's over 40 years old, past his prime and hardly wrestles anymore.

It was HHH's and creatives fault. If WWE wanted Punk to be this rebel figure, YOU TURN YOUR AUTHORITY FIGURE INTO A HEEL, not portray the authority figure as some angel otherwise the anti-authority figure just looks like some teenage punk. If HHH wanted to create a new bone-a-fied star he should of took it upon himself to get the face over by turning heel.
I agree with this, although there is still time. Despite what has happened, I'm hoping this is just to prolong the feud until WM, and in a couple of months HHH will finally turn heel.

As of right now though, HHH has Punk's thunder, is the center of the show, which Punk was for a month or so before he feuded with HHH, and Punk doesn't look as good as he did just a month ago. But like I said, there is time for that to change, and I'm hoping that is what happens. But we can only judge from what has happened thus far. But I do think that by the end of this, Punk will come out as a cemented main eventer.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:17 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Triple H Help or Hurt CM Punk?

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Originally Posted by Brawling_Maniac View Post
Jesus christ man. Have patience for fuck sake. the storyline is far from over. Turn HHH heel just like that? he is not your fucking zack ryder.

Do you even realise heel HHH could be cheered over a babyface punk?

Not many casuals care about punk even after the shoot.
Proof - Ratings.

So you have a guy who is not a effective babyface and HHH who is so fucking popular, how do you think this will end?

The reason hhh won at NOC is coz this storyline has to continue & so he needed the win.
HHH being to popular? is that why he was boo'd when he said that he fired Truth and Miz on Raw this week?. And not many people care about Punk? selective hearing it may be but are you just ignoring the pops he gets, the CM Punk chants and his shirt being the best selling shirt for nearly two months now.

All that and he hasnt even fueded with a heel yet. Punk hasnt even reached his peak of popularity yet. Get a fucking clue.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:17 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Triple H Help or Hurt CM Punk?

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Originally Posted by stirlingsheep View Post
Whether or not Punk was buried in the match or not, history records that HHH, semi retired, 40+ years old, not having a match in god-knows-how-long, came out and beat the guy who was on the hottest streak in years, not even as a face, but as a tweener.

As for poor booking, there were plenty of options, ADR/Punk/Cena like we have now, just keeping Nash the hell out. HHHs booking, and Nash's involvement meant that Punk had nowhere to go with his character.

To put it in to perspective, a month ago Mick Fokley said Punk was the only gimmick he was jealous of, HHH and the WWE managed to ruin that. If that's not burying a character, I don't know what is.
I'm not saying they didn't fuck it up because they did. They could have kept Punk off TV longer, they could have kept Cena/Punk going for another PPV or 2, they could have kept Vince on TV, they could have brought HHH in and kept him separate, they could have left out Nash (which is what I think caused all the problems tbh), they could have done any number of things. The fact is, they got themselves into a hole and instead of digging their way out they just kept digging deeper.

I don't see how anybody could rationally think that WWE fans who have been cheering their asses off for HHH for the past 6 years were just going to jump ship over night for a guy with an unlikeable character in certain situations and who started taking pot shots at his family. WWE should have had the foresight to know that that simply wasn't going to happen and I'm not sure if Punk was told to say those things, although I'm assuming it's his own material because he said as much in an interview therefore the fault lies with him a little, but whoever made the call, it was absolutely the wrong call because all it did was make him out to be a douche, plain and simple. Telling kids that Santa isn't real, insulting somebody's wife because you can and you think it's funny, generally being a little troll because you want to and you think you can get away with it? Who does that appeal to? It certainly isn't masses of people as the fan reactions show.

That's nice of Foley to say and all but really, so what? There's no denying Punk's momentum has taken a hit because it 100% has. But there isn't one reason as to why that happened and the one reason isn't HHH. If you can't see the various problems that a lot of us, including myself, were willing to overlook at the time because it was just so damn interesting then you need to look harder because they are staring you right in the face. They could have went any number of ways with this thing yet they probably picked one of the worst.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jblvdx View Post
Who should be the focus of the show in your opinion? Punk or HHH, because for some reason WWE feel HHH should be the center of the show when he's over 40 years old, past his prime and hardly wrestles anymore.

It was HHH's and creatives fault. If WWE wanted Punk to be this rebel figure, YOU TURN YOUR AUTHORITY FIGURE INTO A HEEL, not portray the authority figure as some angel otherwise the anti-authority figure just looks like some teenage punk. If HHH wanted to create a new bone-a-fied star he should of took it upon himself to get the face over by turning heel.
When have I said HHH should be the focus of the show? And stop looking at things like they are black and white. Turning HHH heel isn't like fucking Mark Henry turning heel. It's a HUGE deal. He has been and is one of the most beloved guys on the roster for the past how many years now and more importantly than that, he's reached legend status. You think that Undertaker is just as easily turned heel too I suppose since you think it's so easy to turn HHH. The fan reactions when Punk went off on him or when Trips threatened to kick his ass prove my point. Smarks were with Punk 100% but everybody else wasn't so quick to abandon HHH for Punk and they ended up not moving at all. A HHH heel turn is going to take more than 3 months and half assed storytelling involving a supposed face who isn't likable to over half the audience. For it to work it needs to be done right. If they attempted to turn him at NOC we all would have been cringing in horror as the majority of fans sided with him over Punk once again. All you need to do is look at the pop he got for winning the match at the end of the night.

I knew it was going to happen but now I have an army of Punk marks on my back. Yay, this is exactly what I was going for...
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:24 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Triple H Help or Hurt CM Punk?

The angle was fucked up the moment they canceled the Cena-Punk focus and brought back an unable-to-compete Nash just so they could get Cena back into safe, "hero" territory with Heel #2151353195797315.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:25 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Triple H Help or Hurt CM Punk?

Punk marks get of starbucks back and go check out the ratings thread and defend him there.

OH SHIT NUMBERS ARE HARD TO ARGUE WITH!
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:26 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Triple H Help or Hurt CM Punk?

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Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
I'm not saying they didn't fuck it up because they did. They could have kept Punk off TV longer, they could have kept Cena/Punk going for another PPV or 2, they could have kept Vince on TV, they could have brought HHH in and kept him separate, they could have left out Nash (which is what I think caused all the problems tbh), they could have done any number of things. The fact is, they got themselves into a hole and instead of digging their way out they just kept digging deeper.

I don't see how anybody could rationally think that WWE fans who have been cheering their asses off for HHH for the past 6 years were just going to jump ship over night for a guy with an unlikeable character in certain situations and who started taking pot shots at his family. WWE should have had the foresight to know that that simply wasn't going to happen and I'm not sure if Punk was told to say those things, although I'm assuming it's his own material because he said as much in an interview therefore the fault lies with him a little, but whoever made the call, it was absolutely the wrong call because all it did was make him out to be a douche, plain and simple. Telling kids that Santa isn't real, insulting somebody's wife because you can and you think it's funny, generally being a little troll because you want to and you think you can get away with it? Who does that appeal to? It certainly isn't masses of people as the fan reactions show.

That's nice of Foley to say and all but really, so what? There's no denying Punk's momentum has taken a hit because it 100% has. But there isn't one reason as to why that happened and the one reason isn't HHH. If you can't see the various problems that a lot of us, including myself, were willing to overlook at the time because it was just so damn interesting then you need to look harder because they are staring you right in the face. They could have went any number of ways with this thing yet they probably picked one of the worst.



When have I said HHH should be the focus of the show? And stop looking at things like they are black and white. Turning HHH heel isn't like fucking Mark Henry turning heel. It's a HUGE deal. He has been and is one of the most beloved guys on the roster for the past how many years now and more importantly than that, he's reached legend status. You think that Undertaker is just as easily turned heel too I suppose since you think it's so easy to turn HHH. The fan reactions when Punk went off on him or when Trips threatened to kick his ass prove my point. Smarks were with Punk 100% but everybody else wasn't so quick to abandon HHH for Punk and they ended up not moving at all. A HHH heel turn is going to take more than 3 months and half assed storytelling involving a supposed face who isn't likable to over half the audience. For it to work it needs to be done right. If they attempted to turn him at NOC we all would have been cringing in horror as the majority of fans sided with him over Punk once again. All you need to do is look at the pop he got for winning the match at the end of the night.

I knew it was going to happen but now I have an army of Punk marks on my back. Yay, this is exactly what I was going for...
I actually agree with what you're saying here, I'm just disappointed a guy who was on his way up has been knocked back. I've highlighted the bit in bold because, believe it or not I think HHH is the best in the business, and from 98-2009 whatever he was, heel, DX, Evolution, anything, I loved watching him. But he IS one of the guys who could get people who marked for him for years to turn in one night, or over a month, in fact he's the best, barring The Rock, and Austin when he sided with McMahon then WCW, who could do that.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:27 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Triple H Help or Hurt CM Punk?

I just cant understand how anyone can defend HHH. But oh well everyone has an opinion.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:32 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Triple H Help or Hurt CM Punk?

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Originally Posted by jblvdx View Post
HHH being to popular? is that why he was boo'd when he said that he fired Truth and Miz on Raw this week?. And not many people care about Punk? selective hearing it may be but are you just ignoring the pops he gets, the CM Punk chants and his shirt being the best selling shirt for nearly two months now.

All that and he hasnt even fueded with a heel yet. Punk hasnt even reached his peak of popularity yet. Get a fucking clue.
get a clue?

You are the one who fails to see WWE is Turning HHH heel gradually, thats why they made him fire Truth and the MIZ.

You really think Vince doesnt know HHH announcing that he fired truth and miz would get him booed in the arena?

yeah cm punk chants and shirts selling - THANKS TO INSIDER REFERENCES for 3 fucking months.

What the fuck is punk without his insider references?

Do you really think Punk would have stayed hot forever? people were already sick of his bitching & whining every week. you should get a fucking clue.


you know what I actually like punk, he is talented & would love to see him as the top guy but fuck i am gonna end up hating on him thanks to people like you.
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