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Old 01-16-2013, 01:07 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama plan: Ban assault weapons

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Originally Posted by A$AP View Post
Realistically, what kind of shit are you getting yourself into that you need a fully automatic assault rifle to protect yourself? lol
It's nearly impossible for a civilian to get anything fully automatic.

Assault weapons is just a political buzzword used to make people think of automatic weapons.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:10 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama plan: Ban assault weapons

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Originally Posted by A$AP View Post
Realistically, what kind of shit are you getting yourself into that you need a fully automatic assault rifle to protect yourself? lol
Where are you getting this fully automatic nonsense from? The amount of those guns that are owned LEGALLY is so minuscule...and they have to be registered.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:10 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama plan: Ban assault weapons

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Originally Posted by Glass Shatters View Post
Indeed it does. Good you are getting the statistics straight now so maybe you two can have a debate about it.

But when you are four years removed from the highest number of knife homicides in 30 years since your government started keeping the tally and knife homicides rose 40% in the same decade, you really have nowhere to go but down.
I'd argue that to say it can only go down is a bit of a dishonest context. Yes it has went down from a big period that was 2006/7 however you're overlooking that currently it's at the scale it was in 1996 which is in the lower end of the scale from our records. Not to mention we've introduced further knife restrictions after 2007.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:12 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama plan: Ban assault weapons

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Originally Posted by fergieska View Post
I'd argue that to say it can only go down is a bit of a dishonest context. Yes it has went down from a big period that was 2006/7 however you're overlooking that currently it's at the scale it was in 1996 which is in the lower end of the scale from our records. Not to mention we've introduced further knife restrictions after 2007.
So, what's to say that the knife deaths can't spike again? The fact that you instituted more laws to prevent it? Criminals don't follow laws. Knife death rose 40% in a decade for you guys. Pointing at a single year and saying that "it's working", is not enough of a sample size. In fact, it's more of an exception to the rule looking at it from a total stance.

And I know that's not the context you offered up the statistics in, I'm just saying.

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Old 01-16-2013, 01:21 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama plan: Ban assault weapons

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Originally Posted by Glass Shatters View Post
So, who's to say that the knife deaths can't spike again? The fact that you instituted more laws to prevent it? Criminals don't follow laws.Knife death rose 40% in a decade for you guys. Pointing at a single year and saying that "it's working", is not enough of a sample size. In fact, it's more of an exception to the rule looking at it from a total stance.
I'm not stating that they can't spike again. I'm just pointing out the fact that currently they are at a low point which you're brushing off for a hypothetical situation.

Also the exception to the rule seems off. One spike which is followed by a continual decrease with a slight increase during the time of the London riots, to be called an exception to the rule is a bit of a stretch.

Let me ask, what would make you think "ok the knife homicide rate in the UK is fine now?"

Also surely you comprehend that saying "criminals don't follow laws" is a bit of a gross simplification of the issue? A lot of these laws passed are done so to make it easier to arrest people carrying knives; an arrestable condition before any harm has been done.
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Last edited by fergieska : 01-16-2013 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:26 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama plan: Ban assault weapons

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Originally Posted by fergieska View Post
I'm not stating that they can't spike again. I'm just pointing out the fact that currently they are at a low point which you're brushing off for a hypothetical situation.
As I said, and I may have edited it after you already quoted, I know that what I was arguing was not in the context you were using the statistics. You were using the statistics to refute TehBrain's argument of knife deaths being higher than ever, when in fact they are not. My response to this was to simply point out that because they are dropping does not mean that they are low. Crime is going to go up and down every year. It's not going to stay the same.

Quote:
carrying knives; an arrestable condition before any harm has been done.
So how is this going to be enforced? Police going to pat down every Tom, Harry, and Sally that leaves their home to look for a knife? It racks the brain to see how this can even be enforced. Or are they going to show up after a crime has already been committed with a knife 99 times out of 100?
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:33 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama plan: Ban assault weapons

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Originally Posted by Glass Shatters View Post
As I said, and I may have edited it after you already quoted, I know that what I was arguing was not in the context you were using the statistics. You were using the statistics to refute TehBrain's argument of knife deaths being higher than ever, when in fact they are not. My response to this was to simply point out that because they are dropping does not mean that they are low. Crime is going to go up and down every year. It's not going to stay the same.
Technically speaking the number is low. But I get the point you're making which is that there have been points of slight increase in that time so it's not definitive that they will stay low.

But like I said this is completely hypothetical. Simply saying crime is going to up and down every year (or in this case homicide by knife will go up and down every year) wont suddnely make that true.

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Originally Posted by Glass Shatters View Post
So how is this going to be enforced? Police going to pat down every Tom, Harry, and Sally that leaves their home to look for a knife? It racks the brain to see how this can even be enforced. Or are they going to show up after a crime has already been committed with a knife 99 times out of 100?
From my current knowledge on it; police officers on the beat have been known to pat down people they find suspicious (e.g. youths out late); I've seen this myself from various nights out.

But I think you're overlooking the obvious point here. If carrying a knife was legal and the knife is visible then that person can't be arrested until they do something with said knife. However on the opposite scale, if the knife was visible and someone walking pass this person notices it then they can contact the authorities.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:45 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama plan: Ban assault weapons

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Originally Posted by fergieska View Post
Technically speaking the number is low. But I get the point you're making which is that there have been points of slight increase in that time so it's not definitive that they will stay low.
No. The number is lower than what it was last year.

Quote:
But like I said this is completely hypothetical. Simply saying crime is going to up and down every year (or in this case homicide by knife will go up and down every year) wont suddnely make that true.
Cite me any source from any country that had the exact number of total criminal occurrences from year to year. Crime goes up and down every year, whether it be small or large. This is fact, not a hypothetical assumption.


Quote:
From my current knowledge on it; police officers on the beat have been known to pat down people they find suspicious (e.g. youths out late); I've seen this myself from various nights out.
Wow. Just wow. I don't even know what to say to this one.

Quote:
But I think you're overlooking the obvious point here. If carrying a knife was legal and the knife is visible then that person can't be arrested until they do something with said knife. However on the opposite scale, if the knife was visible and someone walking pass this person notices it then they can contact the authorities.
Now people will just conceal the knives. People who want to get caught or do something stupid with it will make it visible.

I think you and I can just agree to disagree.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:49 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama plan: Ban assault weapons

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Originally Posted by Glass Shatters View Post
I think you and I can just agree to disagree.
I agree. I apologise but some of my text is a bit off due to lack of sleep.

Thank you for being respectable on an issue with differing opinions.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:55 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama plan: Ban assault weapons

This did remind of one point

Where is the well regulated militia? Its explicitly mentioned in the 2nd amendment to protect the people from the tyranny of the government, so where is it? Individuals wont be enough. I realise with the US army the need has fallen wayside, but if it significant enough to be the 2nd amendment, not to mention people holding on this long to their right to bear arms, it should be important
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