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Old 05-24-2012, 05:52 AM   #151 (permalink)
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Default Re: Republicans

The 'seperation of church and state' was designed specifically to protect the religious freedoms of the original settlers in the new world, a large portion of whom were leaving Europe to escape persecution for their particular beliefs.

I hate reading Benjamin Franklin's works, so pious and rigid, more of an Emerson man myself.
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:21 AM   #152 (permalink)
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Default Re: Republicans

Oh the laughs i'll have the day the bible thumpers realize that the brown people share the same religious "freedoms" as they do.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:12 AM   #153 (permalink)
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Default Re: Republicans

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Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder View Post
I find it worse when liberals try and make people believe that the founding fathers weren't religious or deist...



Who is he praying to -- the horse?

Also, we are hearing more and more about the founding fathers because of Obama. I always hear that Obama hates the presidency. No, he loves being president, but he hates the constitution because it limits what he can/cannot do. Remember that speech he gave a while ago where he said he wishes he could do things without congress? The founding fathers would be appalled with Obama.


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Quote:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
- Treaty of Tripoli. Submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797. The treaty is cited as historical evidence in the modern day controversy over whether there was religious intent by the founders of the United States government.

The Founding Fathers:

John Adams
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
John Jay
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
George Washington

Only John Jay was a Christian.

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"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"
Quote:
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
Quote:
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."
- John Adams
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Last edited by vamp1ro : 05-24-2012 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:21 AM   #154 (permalink)
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Default Re: Republicans

Quote:
Originally Posted by vamp1ro View Post

- Treaty of Tripoli. Submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797. The treaty is cited as historical evidence in the modern day controversy over whether there was religious intent by the founders of the United States government.

The Founding Fathers:

John Adams
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
John Jay
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
George Washington

Only John Jay was a Christian.
A lot of the other Founding Fathers didn't subscribe to a specific religion but many of them were deists.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:32 AM   #155 (permalink)
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Default Re: Republicans

Would it be fair to say that the actual on-the-ground implementation of the 'separation of church and state' has been problematic?
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:15 AM   #156 (permalink)
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Default Re: Republicans

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Originally Posted by kobra860 View Post
A lot of the other Founding Fathers didn't subscribe to a specific religion but many of them were deists.
I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with people assuming because they may have been deists, that automatically means they were Christians and the U.S. should be a Christian theocracy.

Quote:
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Would it be fair to say that the actual on-the-ground implementation of the 'separation of church and state' has been problematic?
You have no idea. Nearly every political debate between Democrats and Republicans ends up with some sort of religious undertone. Look how long it took to get the 10 Commandments and prayer out of public schools. Our courts and President still say "so help me God" and our money still has "God" on it. Our Pledge of Allegiance still has "under God" in it. I'd say its been problematic.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:05 PM   #157 (permalink)
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Default Re: Republicans

Quote:
Originally Posted by vamp1ro View Post
I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with people assuming because they may have been deists, that automatically means they were Christians and the U.S. should be a Christian theocracy.

You have no idea. Nearly every political debate between Democrats and Republicans ends up with some sort of religious undertone. Look how long it took to get the 10 Commandments and prayer out of public schools. Our courts and President still say "so help me God" and our money still has "God" on it. Our Pledge of Allegiance still has "under God" in it. I'd say its been problematic.
Yeah that's the free mason "God", also known as Satan. It is problematic though not because there is any reason God is a bad idea but because the idea of government is opposite of God. Any authority man has over another man is by definition blasphemy. The Pope, a priest, a boss, a president, are all examples of people that have some authority over others.

So in essence it only logically makes sense that government cuts its ties with Christian beliefs, or actually promotes real Christian beliefs which are more in alignment with what Democrats intend on doing with charity, social programs and freedom for all minorities. Giving all people the ability to lead healthy lives out of fear of oppressive authority and stop believing that all people are bad. It is completely hopeless to me when Republicans use the Christian nation theory today though because that is an oxymoron. That theory is coming straight from the military industrial complex using the churches to send innocent people to fight wars with other innocent people in the name of Christian America? If the founding fathers did intend Christianity then your faith in God should resolve your insecurities to go blabbering on the internet without any relative basis or knowledge of your own belief system. REPUBLICAN does not equal CHRISTIAN.

In all honesty, Vamp1ro is more likely a better Christian than the Boy Wonder will ever be and I know he doesn't even intend it. That is the point though. He just lives his life in disgust of how people are manipulated and managed by a failed system where pundits proclaim God intended it this way.

So my argument is that if the founding fathers were Christian, they didn't shove it down our throats as they had escaped from the same oppression you are trying to bring back today. They took action and formed what once was a great place to live. Now though all these insane Republican/Christian molds are making the world impossible to live in.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:57 PM   #158 (permalink)
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Default Re: Republicans

Quote:
Originally Posted by 777 View Post
The 'seperation of church and state' was designed specifically to protect the religious freedoms of the original settlers in the new world, a large portion of whom were leaving Europe to escape persecution for their particular beliefs.

I hate reading Benjamin Franklin's works, so pious and rigid, more of an Emerson man myself.
I was just picking one. . . if Jefferson or Hamilton are more your speed, then have at thee.

I do like Emerson. . .

I know I'm posting in this thread, but that also doesn't make me pro-Democrat, either. I think both groups suck.
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:38 AM   #159 (permalink)
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Yeah that's the free mason "God", also known as Satan.
Oh my fuckin
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:38 AM   #160 (permalink)
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Default Re: Republicans

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Oh my fuckin
LOL... are you laughing because it could be true seeing as half the masons don't even know what's going on in their brotherhood or you are a mason?

GOD I just quit coming on here for awhile because of naivety and idiocy. Looks like I'm leaving again...
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