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Old 11-14-2003, 06:58 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Nitemare said in post #37 :
maybe it's you who is convincing yourself there isn't God? It can be reversed both ways.
I'd love to know for sure that there's a God somewhere who will reward those who do good but the fact is, there's absolutely no evidence to prove that. I'll admit that there has to be a start to the whole thing but the chances of that start coming from some sort of fatherly God is far less likely - and plausible than the idea of it being a huge blast of gases. It's impossible to get to the bottom of it as it's impossible to consider an entirely empty universe devoid of anything.

It just seems to me like a lot of people waste a lot of time worrying about going to heaven or following their religion when the chances are, there is no such thing. The bible could be nothing more than a book to manipulate millions in to living in a certain way because it was convenient at the time. I mean, just say someone was born in this age, proclaiming himself the "son of God". They'd be a laughing stock. If they went out and performed "miracles", they'd be branded an illusionist. Maybe that's all Jesus was. An illusionist who used his skills to convince a group of fanatical followers that he was really the son of God. Again, maybe Jesus did exist and maybe he did perform all these miracles but common sense points to the fact that he couldn't have because most of them are physically impossible.

It really is impossible to put up an argument for God being real or fake as in both scenarios you end up with the same question of "how did it all start in the first place?". The question of whether Jesus really was the man the Bible proclaims him to be again boils down to whether you have "faith". But i don't understand where people get this faith from considering all they have to go by is the writings of a book which includes impossibilities such as walking on water. It all seems a bit naive in my opinion.
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Old 11-14-2003, 10:09 PM   #42 (permalink)
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There you go again, you're stereotyping is as Jesus. The original church does not believe in Jesus. Why can't you guys get that through your heads? We don't worship Jesus, we worship God. Some believe that Jesus was the son of God. And there are some that believe Jesus was God, but we still don't pray to Jesus.

And you still say "there are no facts that God does exist." Well, I also don't see facts that he doesn't exsist...
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Old 11-14-2003, 10:26 PM   #43 (permalink)
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satan/lucifer/beelzebuub call him what you may, even though infact msot of his names are infact that of other fallen angels, was indeed jealous of god, an when he stood against god he was thrust from heavan in exile, S8N then waged war on god an his angels which incase you didnt know he lost... he then set up shop in "hell" settin up to steal souls away form god..

Strangly enough the "devil" did not exist in ancient jewish religion, he is infact a "deity" borrowed from the egyptian txts

a "god" who was the god over overseas, who was an alrite decent chap, untill invaders arrived an started screwin shit up

now he was an evil god, now add in the jews who as no "evil" bloke in their religion... shit starts hittin the fan an the take on this "bad guy" as the reason its goin wrong..

it gets added big time into christianty an 200 or so yrs ago
Popular culture discovers that sex, gluttony, and other so-called 'sins' are actually pretty fun -- and that sin sells. The culture is flooded with "devilish" delights and Satan looses his edge except among the religious and the ignorant. Devil's food cake, deviled ham, deviled eggs, a cold day in hell, hell frozen over, hell of a good time, feeling like hell, looking like hell, speaking of the devil, wicked cars, sinful pleasures, and other "satanic" phrases and items enter the language and become common-place. The devil no longer represents what is BAD but what is GOOD BUT 'NAUGHTY'.


that is a ruff an brief history of "the devil"

want a more detailed view... look it up on a search engine
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Old 11-14-2003, 10:34 PM   #44 (permalink)
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oreZcipmylO said in post #42 :

....And you still say "there are no facts that God does exist." Well, I also don't see facts that he doesn't exsist...
You can say the same thing about Santa, The Easter Bunny, The Tooth Fairy etc. You are told they exist when you are a kid but when you grow up you are told they don't. I grew up knowing that God was God and Jesus was his son. Whether or not there is a God, does your life feel fulfilled knowing you believe there is? My life is not the way I planned it to be, it's probably better. The only faith I attribute that to is faith in myself. That faith has got me where I am today.
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Old 11-15-2003, 01:19 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Old 11-15-2003, 06:31 AM   #46 (permalink)
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oreZcipmylO said in post #42 :
There you go again, you're stereotyping is as Jesus. The original church does not believe in Jesus. Why can't you guys get that through your heads? We don't worship Jesus, we worship God. Some believe that Jesus was the son of God. And there are some that believe Jesus was God, but we still don't pray to Jesus.
If we're talking about Christianity (I ask because you didn't mention what faith you are), then it is about Jesus. That's where the "Christ" part of the word comes from - Jesus Christ. The New Testament is concerned with Jesus and stories about him. "Christians" do worship Jesus, as well as God. Despite your previous claims, the Bible does say they're the same thing, regardless of how different denominations have interpreted it. It's the Holy Trinity - the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.



Secondly, I feel I perhaps I need to clarify my earlier points. I never meant to give the impression that my problem is with Catholics, it's with Catholicism. There is a difference. Don't tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, because I do. I know exactly what I'm talking about and don't need to be told otherwise. It's not a case of blind faith, it's a case of faith blinding people. From the outside, with an open mind, at least people in my position can look at it objectively, not subjectively.

With religion generally, as I said, I have no problem. It's the zealots that try to ram their opinions down my throat that I can't bear. I've never told anyone what to believe or criticised people for those beliefs. What I won't stand for is people trying to convert me or telling me that I'm worse off because I don't share their faith.
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Old 11-15-2003, 06:38 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Actually Flash, he did say what religion he is...

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oreZcipmylO said in post #6 :
I believe in God. And certain parts of Christianity. I'm a Catholic. Some things I think are shit though.
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Old 11-15-2003, 06:39 AM   #48 (permalink)
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oreZcipmylO said in post #6 :
I believe in God. And certain parts of Christianity. I'm a Catholic.
There you go Flash. That's what OZ is.

Edit - Thanks Adam, one minute before mine. Quick bastard!
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Old 11-15-2003, 08:05 AM   #49 (permalink)
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oreZcipmylO said in post #23 :
I can call you a fucking moron for believing in the big bang. For believing in evolution, that man was once an ape..
Evolution is real. Cue dinosaurs, take a look Cro-Magnum(sp?) man and Neanderthal(sp?) man.

Quote:
oreZcipmylO said in post #23 :
As I said before, religion is based solely on faith. And BDV1, you said that "I believe the theory that God was just made up to make children less scared of dying and wanting to lead a good life".

Do you realise how long the belief in God has been around? You're talking like it's new trend. It's been around for thousands of years. The Muslims and the Jews were the ones to start it. At one point the belief in only one main god; God, was so vast that the Egyptians only worshipped one God. Aknatan, the pharoah spread that. That could be by chance, or maybe it was supposed to happen. How do you know?
I do believe it was a trend, a trend that caught on. People with no hope and poor lives loved the idea of having this divine reward at the end of life. The ideology of the good guy finishing first. You talk about the Pharoah spreading the word. What an excellent idea. What would control a population more than eternal damnation or some grizzily death at the hands of an all seeing all powerful being. Christianity was used to newter your life. All signs point to yes.

Quote:
Nitemare said in post #26 :
BDV1, I'm not happy with your text. Not only as a Christian, but as an admin. It's quite poor that you would go and offend a lot of posters with such a close-minded sentence. It is actually making you look like the "fucking moron." No one here holds such anger towards religions (God, gods, or Jesus, I guess) but you. Maybe you should stop replying to the thread since you obviously are not mature enough to handle an adult debate.
I didn't ask you to be happy with my txt. If you don't like it. Don't read it. I did not just offer a close minded sentence. I backed up my points with reason and logic.

Quote:
Nitemare said in post #26 :
only true believers will have the power of God. Poor people, homeless people, third-world countries...yes, they are dying all the time. But how many of them believe.
You have a lot of anger too Lee, you blame the homeless, poor and third world countrys for not having enough faith to save themselves with the power of god. That's one of the sickest things I've ever read. Third world countrys have devout christian followings, and they're still rewarded by starving, pestilence and war. What kind of god, neigh, what kind of idiot would treat his followers like this? If this is how God treats the world. Only rewarding those he can be bothered too. Then God has a big "Fuck you" coming his way.

Quote:
JgangstaHippie7:18 said in post #27 :

blessed are those who cant see but belive
o my god im a roman catholic who goes to church ever saturday and wears a cross all the time
also there is edidence jesus is alive in many historcal letters


also god was there amd always shall be there
Historical letters don't prove shit. It's just a letter. Where's the blood? Where's the video footage? A piece of paper is about as much proof as the birthmark of the easter bunny on my ass proving that's real.

I would say I'm sorry if I offended someone. But that's as far from the truth as it gets. The world is waking up. No one needs the excuse of this spirit who watches over us. It's all to clear that we are all VERY alone in this world. We are going no where and there is no consolation prize at the end.

You are born. You will lead your life how you see fit. You will die.

It's just how it is. No bullshit theorys. No fake idols. No time wasted talking to yourself. Appreciate and stop wasting the fluke miracle that is your life.
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Old 11-15-2003, 09:26 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Thanks Adam and Chris, I had actually read his post, but when he was saying how "we don't worship Jesus, we worship God", I started to wonder if something was awry. Surely the Catholic Church worships God/Jesus (for they are the same, according to Catholicism) and the Virgin Mary also?
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