The 2013 MOTYC Thread - Page 20 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:00 PM   #191 (permalink)
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Default re: The 2013 MOTYC Thread

TNA Genesis 2013:

-TNA World Tag Team Championship Match: Chavo Guerrero & Hernandez (c) vs Matt Morgan & Joey Ryan **1/4
-Mr Anderson vs Samoa Joe **
-Christian York vs Kenny King **1/4
-X-Division Championship Match: Rob Van Dam (c) vs Christian York *1/2
-Devon vs Joseph Park **1/4
-Gauntlet Match: Miss Tessmacher vs Gail Kim vs ODB vs Mickie James vs Velvet Sky *1/4
-Christopher Daniels vs James Storm **3/4
-Sting vs D.O.C *1/4
-TNA World Heavyweight Championship - Triple Threat Elimination Match: Jeff Hardy (c) vs Bobby Roode vs Austin Aries ***1/4
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:01 PM   #192 (permalink)
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Default re: The 2013 MOTYC Thread

TNA Genesis 2013:

Bobby Roode vs Austin Aries vs Jeff Hardy - ***3/4+

Really great stuff. I approve Hardy as champion, gotta admit that he's damn good since BFG.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:08 PM   #193 (permalink)
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BJW 2/01

-BJW World Strong Heavyweight Championship Match: Yoshihito Sasaki (c) vs Manabu Soya **3/4
-BJW Tag Team Championship Match: Isami Kodaka & Yuko Miyamoto (c) vs Tommy End & Michael Dante ***1/4
-BJW Deathmatch Heavyweight Championship Match: Abdullah Kobayashi (c) vs Shuji Ishikawa **1/2
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:45 PM   #194 (permalink)
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Titan vs Polvora CMLL World Welterweight Championship 1.01.13

I must be the only person on this forum that cannot see what is so great about this match. I really did not like this match much whatsoever and had a number of problems with it. First of all the first two quick falls added literally nothing to the match and felt like complete filler as the rest of the match bared no resemblance to the beginning 6-8 mins whatsoever. The beginning mat work and one upping by both men was pretty good to start with but once again felt absolutely meaningless on the grand scale of things and ultimately led to nowhere. There was literally no story behind this match whatsoever which doesn't have to be a huge problem for me as I enjoyed the fuck out of Ibushi/Devitt/Ki and that didn't have much of a story behind it either but at least that match had a little bit of in ring psychology to it, was exciting and felt like a wrestling match. This match however didn't have any of that for me. The middle section of this match bored me to tears and dragged on and on, the spots didn't feel like they had any meaning behind them and that they were thrown out there for the sake of it. Despite this I could have enjoyed this but there was one massive glaring issue I have; the biggest complaint with this match is more so than even most lucha libre matches I've seen this match felt so contrived and planned. It did not feel like two men having a staged wrestling competition to see who was the better man. It felt like a dance routine and you could tell that certain spots were so obviously planned that I could not get sucked into this match whatsoever (the headscissors from the back from the top rope to the floor is a big example of what I'm talking about because it was obvious). I could not suspend belief for a single second because all I could think about is how staged and fake this match felt and as a wrestling fan that feels so strange to say but its exactly how I felt. I could not feel excited in this match whatsoever till the final few mins which despite still having the problems I've been describing still was a good final few mins to the match when both men kicked it up a gear. But even then because of how much the match seemed to drag the ending for me seemed to have come too short and felt anti-climatic. I think another massive problem that has caused this is the performance of the referee. I swear every person who watches this match will start to appreciate the role of the referee in wrestling about ten times more than they did previously because this referee sucked the life and the drama out of this match with his consistently super slow counting. It felt like the match was never going to end and you couldn't for a second believe when a cover was made that one of the wrestlers was going to win. It took so much away from the match and stopped any chance of me getting invested into the match or any of the wrestlers. It was so painful to watch.

To give this match some positives: aside from a couple of botches both wrestlers did have clean performances and looked smooth in the ring. And both definitely worked hard to make the match as good as they possibly could but this did absolutely nothing for me. For a minute I questioned whether lucha libre was the problem for me and that I simply didn't like the style. But then even with my inexperience of watching it, surely I've seen better lucha matches than this.

**
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:48 PM   #195 (permalink)
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Default re: The 2013 MOTYC Thread

Well if you're not familiar with the lucha style, it won't seem like a good match to you
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:22 PM   #196 (permalink)
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Default re: The 2013 MOTYC Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Srdjan99 View Post
Well if you're not familiar with the lucha style, it won't seem like a good match to you
I don't like the wording of that comment.

I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge on Lucha is not the greatest but I wouldn't say I'm not familiar with the style. Far from it actually. This is what was posted on Segunda Caida's blog about the match:
Quote:
Not really my kind of lucha, as this was pretty much just young guys throwing out all of there spots. Still this was a singles match which got some time, and some of the spots were pretty crazy. All the second caida stuff around the ramp was nuts, as was Titan's tope to Polvora's back. CMLL is going have this kind of match and this isn't a bad version of it.
While both Segunda and myself don't go to Crusade's length in hating it, you cannot for one second question Segunda's own knowledge on the sport. That's just ludicrous.

As for Crusade's personal take on the style, that is a different story and perhaps will not be changed. Like any style of wrestling, Lucha has its protractors and detractors. Some will love it and others will criticise it for being "too co-operative". Those type of people will say they cannot suspend their disbelief long-enough to enjoy those bouts. Yet, in a real fight, how legitimate is any wrestling move actually? We've just grown-up to prefer a certain style (most probably American/standard) and its hardwiring within our belief-structure makes it harder to accept more blatantly fake performances. Even though, ultimately, it's all still pseudo-realism (just at different degrees).

I'm actually curious as to how both of you felt about wrestling when you realised it was scripted. Perhaps that might shed some light on this, because it did for me. I couldn't accept the sport at all, my passion had almost died. I had to "relearn" my love for wrestling, but in doing so I learnt to enjoy much more to it. It was no longer just about the drama, knowing it was fake enabled me to appreciate the work-rate and psychology behind the matches. Something I'm almost sure no one not "in the know" will be able to appreciate.

And this sense of renewal was something I had to do (admittedly, in varying degrees) for new styles not that close to the WWE product - especially so for Lucha. At a surface reading, I'd guess Crusade to be more at home with MMA/shoot-wrestling or Puroresu (those seemingly are the two styles accustomed to people with those critiques on Lucha) and if he cannot get used to Lucha (which would require understanding why the referee counts slowly and the CMLL three-fall booking style [which I will say is lazy and something beginning to get stale in early 2010] amongst other things) then perhaps, for his own sake, it shouldn't be pursued but the door for criticism should always be open as this is a forum. It's ultimately like deathmatch wrestling (to use a more black/white benchmark). You're either going to love it (and praise it accordingly) or not "get it" and lambaste it with a lower rating.

TL;DR I agree that, perhaps, Crusade "doesn't get it" (for lack of a much better term) but that:
A) Isn't a bad thing
B) Doesn't mean the match was that great, because it wasn't.

I went on a bit of a tangent there...
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:48 PM   #197 (permalink)
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Default re: The 2013 MOTYC Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post
I'm actually curious as to how both of you felt about wrestling when you realised it was scripted. Perhaps that might shed some light on this, because it did for me. I couldn't accept the sport at all, my passion had almost died. I had to "relearn" my love for wrestling, but in doing so I learnt to enjoy much more to it. It was no longer just about the drama, knowing it was fake enabled me to appreciate the work-rate and psychology behind the matches. Something I'm almost sure no one not "in the know" will be able to appreciate.
The previous post is a wrong assumption. I don't claim to be really knowledgable but I am familiar with Lucha Libre. The match in question just did absolutely nothing for me.

But to answer your question: It didn't really effect my enjoyment whatsoever. Though I did take a break from watching wrestling completely from 2005 to the middle of 2011. I didn't really appreciate everything that went behind what goes into a wrestling show, the matches, the feuds, the storylines, the promos etc. until I got back into wrestling in 2011. So I guess you can say my love for wrestling never really died away despite taking a break from it.

By the way I do actually like the three booking system which I think is quite a different way of booking matches. I don't think it was used as well as it could have been in that though. I don't think I'll ever like the ref counting if in CMLL the ref counting is like that every single match.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:17 PM   #198 (permalink)
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Default re: The 2013 MOTYC Thread

If you didn't like that match, then you'll HATE the vast majority within the rest of current Lucha. I can see not digging that match while not being too vastly knowledgeable/familiar with some Lucha goodness -> IE not expecting the short falls to start for one example. I think I was into it b/c it wasn't a steaming pile of crap. (which I personally think a lot is, sadly)
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:58 PM   #199 (permalink)
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Default re: The 2013 MOTYC Thread

International Jr. Heavyweight Title and NWA World Jr. Heavyweight Title: Takuya Sugawara (c) vs Ikuto Hidaka (1/1)
This was a great little match. About 13 minutes I think. I really enjoyed the way that they made Hidaka's kicks look deadly and how they built up the Brainbuster as an automatic finish if he could hit it. The counters were great and the consistent drama around the brainbuster was there in the second half of the match. My qualms are the early on leg work that was really just filler, and the kickout at 1 by Hidaka down the stretch. Sugawara has a nasty finisher. ***3/4
Link: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwq...t#.UPY_TndTGuJ
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:28 AM   #200 (permalink)
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Default re: The 2013 MOTYC Thread

Watched. Very meh.

All I really have to say on it. Fun enough to kill some time, but that's about it.
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