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nevereveragainu · 12-21-2012, 07:51 AM

Kevin Steen, Tyler black, Davey Richards,Rukus, Joey Ryan, Rockstar Spud, Martin Stone are all guys that rose to the top of their respective territoies BUT ONLY AFTER guys like Bryan Danielson,Jody Fleish, Joe, McGuiness,Amazing Red,Punk, Styles, Daniels, MCMG, Kaz, Doug Williams,Jack Evans,Messiah, Burchill,Flash Barker, Low Ki etc either retired semi retired or went elsewhere (TNA/WWE/Japan/Mexico)

are we just lowering our standards? were the former really just held back? or is there something im missing here?

Issues_Sunshyne · 12-21-2012, 08:53 AM

I can't say I understand what you're saying 100%? Do you mean that these wrestlers only came to prominence by filling spots that their predecessors vacated? I would think that's just the way it goes and always has done.

I can't say I completely understood though. From what I could gather, instantly I thought that wrestling moves forward and they picked up the ball that the others had put down to move on.

TomasThunder619 · 12-21-2012, 09:52 AM

What? No. Old stars go out, new stars come in. That's how all the sports works.

**ceeder** · 12-21-2012, 09:57 AM

So you're saying that this batch of guys weren't born on this world as stars, but had to earn it and got there once other "stars" left?

Sounds like evolution, no? I don't understand your point or concern.

Issues_Sunshyne · 12-21-2012, 09:59 AM

Replied to the wrong person.

sXeMope · 12-21-2012, 10:00 AM

I don't think we're lowering out standards or anything at all. It's creating new stars. Everyone you mentioned as the 'new breed' has evolved a lot since the older guys left. They worked hard, were given the ball when the older guys left, and they ran with it and made it successful. Kevin Steen is a great example. He is, and always was a good wrestler, but it's only since he turned on Generico that he started getting really over, and it came at a good time because ROH lost Danielson, McGuinness, and Tyler Black around the same time (year) that storyline was going on (If memory serves me well). And while it's not indy, another good example is John Cena. I remember watching him debut against Kurt Angle in the opening match of Smackdown, now he's the guy.

nevereveragainu · 12-21-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sXeMope

I don't think we're lowering out standards or anything at all. It's creating new stars. Everyone you mentioned as the 'new breed' has evolved a lot since the older guys left. They worked hard, were given the ball when the older guys left, and they ran with it and made it successful. Kevin Steen is a great example. He is, and always was a good wrestler, but it's only since he turned on Generico that he started getting really over, and it came at a good time because ROH lost Danielson, McGuinness, and Tyler Black around the same time (year) that storyline was going on (If memory serves me well)..

my point is, would these guys have gotten over or gotten the spotlight if the indy stars of before were still sround and would be considered their equal

i mean Mark Henry got "over" recently but considering he's been around for like 20 years i wager that its because the crowds standards have finally been lowered to where Mark Henry can be considered "some kind of substance", this is the kind of progress one should expect from early 20th century wrestling territories

Quote:

Originally Posted by sXeMope

And while it's not indy, another good example is John Cena. I remember watching him debut against Kurt Angle in the opening match of Smackdown, now he's the guy.

ironically he was used better back then than recent years, lol

flag sabbath · 12-21-2012, 10:45 AM

I used to collect AJPW & AJW tapes in the early '90s - I've been lowering my standards ever since

**Seabs** · 12-21-2012, 11:34 AM

The top Indy guys aren't as good as the top Indy guys from pre 09. If that's what you mean then yeah, the quality standard of Indy workers has dropped. That's only inevitable though when you lose so many of the best Indy workers in a short space of time and you get left with a bunch of average workers all working with each other.

Issues_Sunshyne · 12-21-2012, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevereveragainu

my point is, would these guys have gotten over or gotten the spotlight if the indy stars of before were still sround and would be considered their equal

Considering that they were probably the greatest generation of independent wrestlers to come through at the same time over a short period in the past few decades, with the internet behind them and everything being new, it would be impossible. Also, if Steen etc came through with them we wouldn't be mentioning them as today's breed. If CM Punk came through in 2010, would we exclude him or still say the same? It's impossible to contemplate.

However, it's like saying Cena/Punk/Orton never got to Austin/Rocks level so we've lowered our expectations. Maybe they aren't as great, but up against the best it will always be looked upon as a nonentity.

The Beatles are still considered by many 40 years on by many to be the greatest ever band, doesn't mean we've lowered our expectations in music in liking the bands we do today.