ROH "Defy Or Deny 2012" - Millqaukee, WI, 01/19/2013 - Page 4 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:35 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH "Defy Or Deny 2012" - Millqaukee, WI, 01/19/2013

Got other Japanese commitments.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:40 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH "Defy Or Deny 2012" - Millqaukee, WI, 01/19/2013

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Originally Posted by Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! View Post
Got other Japanese commitments.
Such as who, DDT?
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:23 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH "Defy Or Deny 2012" - Millqaukee, WI, 01/19/2013

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Originally Posted by Lord Santa Claus IV. View Post
Not sure how you can still blame Pearce for the lack of new stars. Delirious and Cornette have had plenty of time to make their own stars and haven't.

The Strong and Steen title runs didn't really make them bigger stars then what they were before. It just focused the promotion on them more. The Edwards title reign was great for elevating for him but they didn't give it enough legs to really legitimise him as a major player. They've had chances and passed them up. ANX should have been the face of the tag division off the babyface turn and Briscoes feud. Failed. Future Shock had the same potential and they never beat anyone bar Coleman/Alexander and Bravados and split them before they had any credibility as a team. Elgin coming off the SITS match with Davey should have been pushed to the moon. Instead they butchered the HOT exit angle and he's just there right now.
I'm not even necessarily blaming Pearce, I just think he really got ROH in a rut from 2009-2011, which was obviously going to be felt for a good period of time (Ok, maybe I am blaming him), especially when you didn't have the quick fix answer like NOAH talent or the big free agent. Did Pearce establish/introduce ONE guy in his time? And then everyone left near the end of the Pearce era and into Delirious's first run. Delirious never got his footing under him, and if anything he was responsible for bringing in Elgin, forming Future Shock, putting the belt on Edwards, and all the momentum ANX had. I would love to know if the original idea was to do the switch to DR at BITW or to keep the belt on Edwards. Then, the Sinclair purchase happened. At which point the idea was to introduce and establish the guys they had to a new audience. Hopefully I don't come off too defensive, because this all goes without saying they've fucked up numerous opportunities with talent under the Sinclair banner, but I do think there's an argument to be made that repercussions are still being felt from the Pearce period.

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Old 12-24-2012, 09:31 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH "Defy Or Deny 2012" - Millqaukee, WI, 01/19/2013

nothing wrong with the lineup.....but I don't have a single good thing to say about the tag line for the show. Defy or Deny. I hate that one.
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:46 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH "Defy Or Deny 2012" - Millqaukee, WI, 01/19/2013

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Originally Posted by enlightenedone9 View Post
Such as who, DDT?
Yep.
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:58 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH "Defy Or Deny 2012" - Millqaukee, WI, 01/19/2013

If Kota Ibushi can do DDT and NJPW why not El Generico?
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:14 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH "Defy Or Deny 2012" - Millqaukee, WI, 01/19/2013

I could have sworn he worked elsewhere in Japan too. Couldn't find anything.

As for the question, idk. Matters all on if Generico's other commitments all over the world wouldn't get in the way + getting a contract for NJPW to begin with.
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:23 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH "Defy Or Deny 2012" - Millqaukee, WI, 01/19/2013

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Originally Posted by ninetwentyfour View Post
I'm not even necessarily blaming Pearce, I just think he really got ROH in a rut from 2009-2011, which was obviously going to be felt for a good period of time (Ok, maybe I am blaming him), especially when you didn't have the quick fix answer like NOAH talent or the big free agent. Did Pearce establish/introduce ONE guy in his time? And then everyone left near the end of the Pearce era and into Delirious's first run. Delirious never got his footing under him, and if anything he was responsible for bringing in Elgin, forming Future Shock, putting the belt on Edwards, and all the momentum ANX had. I would love to know if the original idea was to do the switch to DR at BITW or to keep the belt on Edwards. Then, the Sinclair purchase happened. At which point the idea was to introduce and establish the guys they had to a new audience. Hopefully I don't come off too defensive, because this all goes without saying they've fucked up numerous opportunities with talent under the Sinclair banner, but I do think there's an argument to be made that repercussions are still being felt from the Pearce period.
I don't think anyone will really argue this. Pearce looks better now because a) he had better talent to work with and b) the product has gotten so much worse since he left, but it's not like ROH was setting the world on fire in 09-10. Maybe things could have been okay if Sinclair had never bought the company (I still remember how good ROH was, out of nowhere, in the first few months of 2011), but they did, and then it all went downhill. A good booker could have saved it, but that didn't happen, and we can't just blame Pearce for all of it.

Still, I definitely think the trend of dragging out angles long past where they should have ended started with Pearce (this is a reminder that Tyler Black won the title nearly two years after Take No Prisoners), and along with that came the hesitance to actually try and move people up the card, or put heels over (the two of these go hand in hand), and all these things have contributed to where we are now.

Oh well. There are so many shows from 03-07 that I can watch.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:39 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH "Defy Or Deny 2012" - Millqaukee, WI, 01/19/2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! View Post
I could have sworn he worked elsewhere in Japan too. Couldn't find anything.

As for the question, idk. Matters all on if Generico's other commitments all over the world wouldn't get in the way + getting a contract for NJPW to begin with.
It was more of a hypothetical thing. If he went to WWE or TNA he wouldn't be able to do many(TNA)or any commitments(WWE) so I didn't know why NJPW couldn't be an alternative to those options. Not saying that he could just walk right into NJPW if he wanted to but I thought of it as a possibility if he were going to take his work to a bigger promotion why not take it to a promotion where he would still be able to work other dates occasionally.He might love going around the world wrestling and wouldn't dream of stopping. In which case he'll keep doing what he is doing and become an international star without stepping foot into a major promotion.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:50 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH "Defy Or Deny 2012" - Millqaukee, WI, 01/19/2013

Generico could go anywhere in the world and be great. Even in WWE with the El Generico character. Probably even with a different character actually to a degree. Generico + New Japan is an odd sounding fit but there's no reason why not. Working DDT isn't exclusive like he if was under contract with New Japan or NOAH for example. He wasn't massively over in Japan during the first half of the year though. I haven't seen his DDT title run yet so hopefully the fans took to him more after more exposure. It's a shame if he just ends up stumbling around the Indies forever because he's too talented in so many areas for that. I'm sure TNA will take him at some point.
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