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Old 11-03-2012, 01:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: How To Reboot ROH's Tag Division

since time machines don't exist, the answer is to use the most over team(s) to get the other teams over. this is something that has not happened since at least 2009, maybe 2008. maybe even 2007.

I had something more in-depth written but I decided I didn't particularly care, but now it's 3am and I can't sleep so whatever.

Corino and Jacobs need to be the focal point of the division. They are the tag champs. They should not be trotted out to wrestle occasionally and then ignored the rest of the time. Have them do things. I've been watching 1996 WCW a lot lately and the thing that's really striking me is how well Hall and Nash are booked. I mean, it's Hall and Nash and they're like all-time great character workers, but Corino and Jacobs are about as good as that gets on the indies these days so really, just have them be complete and total scumbags. Don't have them tell us they're scumbags, have them show us. It's not particularly hard. Just have them come out and ruin matches, or beat up random dudes backstage, or whatever, I don't know, I don't get paid to do this. The point is that if they're the tag champs, and they're going to stay the tag champs, everything has to center around them for the time being. Don't run stupid angles with their main contenders MAYBE BEING A LITTLE FRUSTRATED WITH EACH OTHER. Everyone is gunning for the champs, so everything focuses on the champs.

The Briscoes need to put someone over. This I know for sure has not happened since 2007 and maybe not even then. Whenever someone beats the Briscoes in what's supposed to be a big grudge match, the Briscoes don't fucking drop it, they always get their win back. Look at the KOW in 2010: the Kings win dirty in Charlotte (though Mark kicks out of the KRS-1, which was stupid), then they win clean in a no DQ match in Toronto, and it's way better than anyone expected it to be. That should have been the end and the both teams could have feuded with someone who could have gained from it. But then they keep feuding for another six months and the feud "culminates" in a six-man tag at Final Battle featuring two non-wrestlers and it's stupid. Also the Briscoes won an elimination tag team match somewhere along the way and it was stupid. Then the Kings have no time to put anyone over before they have to drop the belts to a team that doesn't need them for a feel-good moment that nobody wants to happen.

More egregious was 2011, when the Briscoes feuded with the ANX. After the ANX won the ladder war, what was supposed to be their moment, the Briscoes came out on TV and beat them clean. This was literally like, two weeks after the supposed blowoff. After the Steenerico/Briscoes ladder war, the teams didn't wrestle for over a year. They just stayed away from each other to keep both teams hot from the feud they'd just had. They didn't have a normal match with a clean finish right after they tried to kill each other on PPV.

Basically, something always needs to be happening. This isn't just about the tag division. There needs to be one angle that people watch the shows to see. It doesn't have to be a feud, but it needs to be an angle, and it needs to be on every single show. Period. That angle can be Steen/Corino/Jacobs do what they want because they have all the belts. But it has to be developing on every show. And be "developing" I don't mean "the people in it have to do something", because well yes, they do, but it can't be the same thing every week, or slightly different, and the focus always has to be on Steen/Corino/Jacobs.

Finally, while there should always be a reward for watching the show (namely development of the big angle), the viewer should never feel penalized for missing a single non-major show. This is accomplished through linear storylines that allow the viewer to interpolate and/or extrapolate. Far too many of ROH's storylines over the last couple years have gotten needlessly convoluted and non-linear to the point where the non-hardcore viewer could have trouble following them, which is a major problem when you have exposure as limited as a company like ROH.

There are fairly basic rules to presenting a compelling wrestling product and they should be apparent to anyone with sound common sense who has ever followed a good wrestling product. None of them involve bringing in every Chikara tag team.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:10 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: How To Reboot ROH's Tag Division

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Originally Posted by jawbreaker View Post
since time machines don't exist, the answer is to use the most over team(s) to get the other teams over. this is something that has not happened since at least 2009, maybe 2008. maybe even 2007.

I had something more in-depth written but I decided I didn't particularly care, but now it's 3am and I can't sleep so whatever.

Corino and Jacobs need to be the focal point of the division. They are the tag champs. They should not be trotted out to wrestle occasionally and then ignored the rest of the time. Have them do things. I've been watching 1996 WCW a lot lately and the thing that's really striking me is how well Hall and Nash are booked. I mean, it's Hall and Nash and they're like all-time great character workers, but Corino and Jacobs are about as good as that gets on the indies these days so really, just have them be complete and total scumbags. Don't have them tell us they're scumbags, have them show us. It's not particularly hard. Just have them come out and ruin matches, or beat up random dudes backstage, or whatever, I don't know, I don't get paid to do this. The point is that if they're the tag champs, and they're going to stay the tag champs, everything has to center around them for the time being. Don't run stupid angles with their main contenders MAYBE BEING A LITTLE FRUSTRATED WITH EACH OTHER. Everyone is gunning for the champs, so everything focuses on the champs.

The Briscoes need to put someone over. This I know for sure has not happened since 2007 and maybe not even then. Whenever someone beats the Briscoes in what's supposed to be a big grudge match, the Briscoes don't fucking drop it, they always get their win back. Look at the KOW in 2010: the Kings win dirty in Charlotte (though Mark kicks out of the KRS-1, which was stupid), then they win clean in a no DQ match in Toronto, and it's way better than anyone expected it to be. That should have been the end and the both teams could have feuded with someone who could have gained from it. But then they keep feuding for another six months and the feud "culminates" in a six-man tag at Final Battle featuring two non-wrestlers and it's stupid. Also the Briscoes won an elimination tag team match somewhere along the way and it was stupid. Then the Kings have no time to put anyone over before they have to drop the belts to a team that doesn't need them for a feel-good moment that nobody wants to happen.

More egregious was 2011, when the Briscoes feuded with the ANX. After the ANX won the ladder war, what was supposed to be their moment, the Briscoes came out on TV and beat them clean. This was literally like, two weeks after the supposed blowoff. After the Steenerico/Briscoes ladder war, the teams didn't wrestle for over a year. They just stayed away from each other to keep both teams hot from the feud they'd just had. They didn't have a normal match with a clean finish right after they tried to kill each other on PPV.

Basically, something always needs to be happening. This isn't just about the tag division. There needs to be one angle that people watch the shows to see. It doesn't have to be a feud, but it needs to be an angle, and it needs to be on every single show. Period. That angle can be Steen/Corino/Jacobs do what they want because they have all the belts. But it has to be developing on every show. And be "developing" I don't mean "the people in it have to do something", because well yes, they do, but it can't be the same thing every week, or slightly different, and the focus always has to be on Steen/Corino/Jacobs.

Finally, while there should always be a reward for watching the show (namely development of the big angle), the viewer should never feel penalized for missing a single non-major show. This is accomplished through linear storylines that allow the viewer to interpolate and/or extrapolate. Far too many of ROH's storylines over the last couple years have gotten needlessly convoluted and non-linear to the point where the non-hardcore viewer could have trouble following them, which is a major problem when you have exposure as limited as a company like ROH.

There are fairly basic rules to presenting a compelling wrestling product and they should be apparent to anyone with sound common sense who has ever followed a good wrestling product. None of them involve bringing in every Chikara tag team.
I agree with some of this, disagree with other bits, but what I wanted to comment on was the idea of developing anything on "every single show."

I agree 100% percent but ROH can't do that with their current set up. They don't even do a monthly television taping. I think they tape every six weeks for some reason. That means every time they tape, they get three episodes and the only way they can possibly have their stars do back to back appearances is to have them in an inside Ring of honor segment the week before or after they wrestle.

Even this limited way of booking isn't always done, you'll often see the Brisoces or steen not even show up for the other two episodes.

When they do road rage they often have matches that have nothing to do with any fueds or PPV match.

The problem is two fold, they can't possibly have something develope on every show, which you're right about, they should.

AND ON TOP OF THAT... they don't seem to have any desire to.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: How To Reboot ROH's Tag Division

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Old 11-03-2012, 07:47 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: How To Reboot ROH's Tag Division

ROH just need to get guys from the non popular indies. Create new tag teams, give them gimmicks, and signed them to contracts. But then again, the ROH fanbase(current and former) won't accept gimmicks.

I actually wouldn't mind if one of the Brisoces win the World title. Either one is credible enough. They can be this era Funk Brothers. TNA was smart to break up the Dudley Boyz because at the end of the day, tag teams have to split or there would be no Shawn Michaels,Bret Hart,Scott Steiner,Bully Ray,etc.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:48 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: How To Reboot ROH's Tag Division

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ROH just need to get guys from the non popular indies. Create new tag teams, give them gimmicks, and signed them to contracts. But then again, the ROH fanbase(current and former) won't accept gimmicks.
Okay, I totally agree with the first sentence, but then you say something stupid like "the ROH fanbase(current and former) won't accept gimmicks". It's a pile of crap, actually. Gimmicks are completely unnecessary if your character is interesting enough and works in certain enviroment. Gimmicks mostly exist in order to put someone less talented over.

Why are people so obsessed with gimmicks? Smh...

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I actually wouldn't mind if one of the Brisoces win the World title. Either one is credible enough. They can be this era Funk Brothers. TNA was smart to break up the Dudley Boyz because at the end of the day, tag teams have to split or there would be no Shawn Michaels,Bret Hart,Scott Steiner,Bully Ray,etc.
Yeah, completely true. But I would'nt risk with Mark, because Jay is such an awesome singles performer, I'd say he's in Top 3 in ROH (and that's including Generico's reurn), and he's super over with fans.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:41 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: How To Reboot ROH's Tag Division

You have to give guys gimmicks or else they all will look alike in my personal opinion. Most of the current indy scene is so bland, you can't really sell them.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:49 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: How To Reboot ROH's Tag Division

If they got D'Lo Brown and The Godfather to tag up again, I would give ROH literally all my moneys.

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Old 11-03-2012, 01:42 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: How To Reboot ROH's Tag Division

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ROH just need to get guys from the non popular indies. Create new tag teams, give them gimmicks, and signed them to contracts. But then again, the ROH fanbase(current and former) won't accept gimmicks.

I actually wouldn't mind if one of the Brisoces win the World title. Either one is credible enough. They can be this era Funk Brothers. TNA was smart to break up the Dudley Boyz because at the end of the day, tag teams have to split or there would be no Shawn Michaels,Bret Hart,Scott Steiner,Bully Ray,etc.
For your first point I'm going to take it as bringing in or having NEW teams. Not teams from other bigger name indies but tag teams that people maybe haven't heard about. I can get behind that. While I want the Young Bucks brought back, bringing in totally fresh teams to ROH would certainly things feel less stale like it does currently.

I think gimmicks could get over with ROH fans but you're right it is a little bit dicier to try since they don't like trying new things.

And if one of the Briscoes was going to be champion it would have to be Jay. He's damn good. And I have no qualms with JoeRulez saying that he would be in his Top 3 for ROH. I honestly wouldn't mind if it happens at some point. They don't need to break up so one of them can be a Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart but sort of like the Hardy's where Jeff had/has more success but Matt has done well in his own right. Then they could still tag team.I know talking about the Hardy brothers in a positive manner is frowned upon but I'm okay with that.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of the Briscoes breaking up. Maybe not now since that's their most important tag team and things are rough but start bringing in new teams and then have them put someone over before being phased out. Then when the tag team division needs a boost they can get back together with a bunch of fresh teams. This can only happen if ROH starts building up a tag team division.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:38 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: How To Reboot ROH's Tag Division

Everybody needs a gimmick. It isn't just for lesser talent. As a matter of fact, lesser talent have become legends because of their gimmick, much more successful than great in ring talent without one.

And ROH fans will accept them because anyone will accept them.



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The WWE. He was with that promotion for less than a year and a half before he took off. And he was getting a great reaction before that too.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:49 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: How To Reboot ROH's Tag Division

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If they got D'Lo Brown and The Godfather to tag up again, I would give ROH literally all my moneys.

You betta recognize!
Lol only One problem , D'lo works for TNA as a road agent ( I think) and I'm not sure roh and tna are on good terms after that Kenny King incident
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