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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 03:22 PM
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Re: Dgusa the new ROH?

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Originally Posted by Seabs View Post
DGUSA and EVOLVE are terribly run businesses.
can i ask how?
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 03:32 PM
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Re: Dgusa the new ROH?

It seems that way to me to, that they are poorly run. Just in the fact that no one really knows about them other than die hard fans. DG:USA had/still does have a lot of potential with their style and their talent but.. I dunno. I'm a huge fan btw but it's frustrating to be one I must admit.

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 05:17 PM
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Re: Dgusa the new ROH?

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Originally Posted by nevereveragainu View Post
can i ask how?
Just read this thread. Totally neglect their non iPPV audience which is still pretty substantial and even if it was only a few hundred people, a wrestling promotion in this economy just can't afford to neglect a segment of their audience. 8 months to release a show on DVD is ridiculous. Makes it near impossible for only the hardcore fans of the promotion to follow them. That and they don't advertise well enough. If at all. It's like something they do in their spare time almost. And then it's a surprise when they only draw 80-100 people for a show? I swear Gabe thinks ding a Figure Four Daily podcast is ample promotion.

As far as an in ring product goes, I haven't watched a Gabe show all year I don't think. There's no reason for someone who isn't invested to care about either promotion though. EVOLVE has no selling point when they don't have a name like Finlay on the card, and even then it's a selling point for just one match. Gabe ruining his relationship with ROH really killed EVOLVE because he now he's down to a core roster of anyone who doesn't work ROH which for as poor as ROH is right now, all the top Indy names are there which means there's no stars left for Gabe to use. Even if there was he wouldn't capitalise on them anyway. The DGUSA effect wore off a couple of years ago too. The USP was Dragon Gate's best vs The Independents' best. Matches like Danielson vs Doi and Richards vs SHINGO. Now there's no "dream matches" for that promotion to pull out which means it's Dragon Gate Lite featuring some generic Indy names and the odd few who are good but have little name value to draw with.

If you're gonna be a supercard promotion then you need to be able to put on supercards. Since the talent dried up to the big leagues this wasn't possible anymore.

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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 05:23 PM
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Re: Dgusa the new ROH?

Well said. I am one of those non iPPV audience and totally agree. But once my funds pick back up, I will probably spend a few bucks more on good wrestling. I will of course have to take in account who actually looks out for their fans and who doesn't though.

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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 11:45 PM
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Re: Dgusa the new ROH?

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Originally Posted by ninetwentyfour View Post
This.



I see what you're saying, but in this case the backer has everything to do with getting them out. Sal fully backs EVOLVE, dk what the deal with DGUSA is, and he records all the shows. Sal is a VERY lazy human being. Just look at how they are procrastinating on announcing this DGUSA shot in November (Like all their shows). They've promoted for MONTHS that they're running that first weekend in November, and yet make finding buildings seem like the most impossible task in pro wrestling.

Rather than keep going, which would be very easy to do with these people, I'll just point to Seabs quote again.

On the plus side, as much as I have my gripes with Gabe, he has done a tremendous job establishing a core roster of guys there that I want to see, but again, it doesn't really mean a whole lot when every aspect of the business is approached so poorly.
Look at how Sal did with FIP it pretty much just faded into obscurity.
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-16-2012, 05:56 AM
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Re: Dgusa the new ROH?

DVDs are dying business, in every aspect of entertainment, you people heard of digital revolution? Those who are willing to move onto digital media have no problem with following of DGUSA/EVOLVE.

That being said, yeah, it takes them forever to release DVDs.

And Gabe's idea of business promoting fucking sucks. His whole marketing consists of "Please like this or share. Thanks" Facebook and Twittah crap. Get a fucking grip, Gabe.

Last edited by Chismo; 09-16-2012 at 06:01 AM.
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-16-2012, 07:07 AM
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Re: Dgusa the new ROH?

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Originally Posted by JoeRulz View Post
DVDs are dying business, in every aspect of entertainment, you people heard of digital revolution? Those who are willing to move onto digital media have no problem with following of DGUSA/EVOLVE.

That being said, yeah, it takes them forever to release DVDs.

And Gabe's idea of business promoting fucking sucks. His whole marketing consists of "Please like this or share. Thanks" Facebook and Twittah crap. Get a fucking grip, Gabe.
I think there's something to be said for those that want a physical copy of things they purchase. I'm one of them. And while it's true the DVD model is one being phased out, there is a huge segment that refuse to watch things on their computer (Yes it's 2012, I know boxes and HDMI exist). I also think it would be vastly different if the quality of the iPPVs was much higher (Some of them are arguably unwatchable by certain standards), or if they made some sort of download service available for those who want a physical copy. The bottom line is you have to meet ends with every faucet that the paying consumer wants, and need to do it as quick as possible.

The promoting and advertising of DGUSA/EVOLVE is without question the worst I have ever seen from any company. Social media is such a crutch for these people, and indy wrestling in general. Look, it's cool if you want to use social media as one tool, but when it's your only tool, that's just bad and a total detriment. Gabe's idea of promoting is getting on Twitter the weeks of his shows and spamming people's feed.

Sal is the blame for why they don't draw. Sal lives in Largo, Florida for God's sake, which is just miles from Ybor City and St. Petersburg (E14/15) and there wasn't an ounce of local promoting done. Mind you, those were joint shows (Just like every EVOLVE since 10), and thus is likely his excuse for being lazy and doing absolutely nothing.

Then look at SHINE, their own project. They actually did a local television ad and surprise, draw over 200 people at the same place that held E14.

It's almost as if they have some sort of entitlement, and try to live off Gabe's reputation and strictly the idea of iPPV.

The key to drawing is local advertising, bottom line. There's a reason local indy feds in Florida draw 250 people with Robbie E vs. Jesse Neal, and Sal/Gabe draw 75 people in Ybor City with El Generico, Johnny Gargano, Chuck Taylor, Colt Cabana, and so on.

The talent really just isn't there for them to book super shows right now. However, I think Gabe has had some great cards on paper that were booked like total whatever shows, and the opposite of "super shows", which should never be the case when you run like 15 times a year and considering their audience. Early EVOLVE especially, although not exclusively, were just filled with some really cool matches that totally got fucked over on time because Gabe is in this "pacing" mindset. Some EVOLVE shows feel so rushed, but then others are a total breeze to watch.

Gabe is too busy trying to tell stories as well for no reason. The guy never knows when he's going to run again, yet won't just book EVOLVE like it should be, the PWG of the East Coast. Look at the Del Sol/Generico series. Some may disagree, but I just don't get booking Del Sol/Generico three straight Generico appearance in EVOLVE. It's the same 100 people, if that, ordering every one. Not to mention each match, while has its differences, is nearly identical in terms of quality. It did nothing to elevate Del Sol beyond the original match they had, then you essentially wasted two Generico matches. Maybe if they were spaced out, but they were 3 matches in the span of 4 shows, and 3 straight EVOLVE Generico appearances.

I disagree with a lot of things they do, but as noted, I think Gabe has done a good job establishing a core group of guys, and I do enjoy the product. They just totally fuck themselves over and then wonder why they can't draw or never have any momentum.

Last edited by ninetwentyfour; 09-16-2012 at 07:27 AM.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-16-2012, 08:17 AM
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Re: Dgusa the new ROH?

iPPV will never take off as a replacement for DVDs. The market for iPPV isn't close to being big enough to replace the DVD market. It's a nice alternative for fans who want to watch shows live but you can't just neglect the non iPPV audience. It's so much easier and convenient to buy a DVD, get it in the post and stick it in a DVD player. Any fan can follow a promotion that way. iPPV you have to put up with a significant drop in video/audio quality and have the inconvenience of watching it on a computer screen or hooking it up to the TV with a HDMI cable. That's a big turn off for a lot of more casual fans.

Just saying iPPV is the future (for starters is wrong) and expecting fans to move with you is really stupid. Maybe if it was someone like New Japan who switched from PPV to iPPV exlcuisve then they'd get away with it because of the size of their fanbase and the local culture, but an Indy who are struggling to draw 100 people for some shows has to cater to every possible market the best they can.

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-16-2012, 09:07 AM
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Re: Dgusa the new ROH?

I honestly might consider the iPPV option of doing things if 1)The odds of the stream having issues live were slim 2)I could still watch it through my TV through say my game console or maybe a roku. I don't want to have to hook up my computer to my TV so I can watch an event or match I am looking forward to on a bigger screen. Then I would possibly consider doing that over the DVD route even if DVD's were put out in respectable time. I don't think any company in the iPPV market knows how to make a near perfect stream or at least a very good stream on a consistent basis so I doubt I could join that "revolution" I suppose.
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-16-2012, 09:10 AM
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Re: Dgusa the new ROH?

Any company that goes away from DVD completely I'll just stop following simple as that. I have no interest whatsoever in paying money for a stream. I want to physically own something that can either be mine forever or should I stop being a fan for whatever reason I can sell on and make some money back. If Gabe and Sal decided tomorrow that they're not intop wrestling anymore and closed up WWNLive you're fucked you have no way to view the shows you have paid for ever again.


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