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Old 04-07-2012, 08:05 PM   #531 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

What does "organic" mean when talking about a wrestling review?
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:13 PM   #532 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

So far Okada/Naito is my MOTY. Here's my review of it:

Quote:
OKADA/Naito is actually a pretty damn good match but it has its flaws. I just hated how sometimes Naito would completely ignore all the leg work he had previously done at times. The finish also left a bad a taste in my mouth. I haven't seen the match in some weeks so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the match end in a clothesline? And just minutes prior to that, OKADA was dropping Naito on his head? A guy gets hit some high impact moves and still kicks out, but a clothesline ends the match?

Then another thing was the piledrivers. I think I just have to accept the fact that in Puro a piledriver deals the same damage as a headlock. But the one thing I liked was OKADA selling the injured leg really well after delivering the two piledrivers (the one inside the ring and the other outside). He made it look like it was the only thing keeping him back from winning. But there were times Naito would just completely ignore the leg work. It wasn't often but it happened.

I not a big puro guy or as a matter of fact any wrestling match on the whole that involves stiff kicks chops, elbows,no selling and head dropping but NJPW doesn't feature such shit (at least from what I've seen) It's mostly NOAH and AJPW that do that sort of thing, so I stay as far away as possible from those promotions.

But I really liked OKADA/Naito. I'm not really that big a fan of either guy but OKADA is a really good performer in the ring. He has good psychology and sells well. For some odd reason he's like a Japanese Randy Orton to me with his mannerisms. This is a damn good match. I don't see it being MOTY but it's one of the best for the year thus far.

****
I'm really dreading that Richards/Elgin match. I hate stiff wrestling. Hate it, hate it, hate it. I don't mind one or two stiff shots but holy shit the overdone stiff elbows, kicks, chops just turns me off. I hate the ROH/indy style of wrestling. I don't wanna really brand it as the indy style but it's commonly found in the 'big time' indy companies and even Japanese promotions like NOAH and AJPW. Every match is structured the same way. Random ass chain wrestling at the start that fail to develop a story, then the aggressive takedown and aggressive rolls to counter them begin. Then from there it's just move for move. There is a huge lack of selling right now on the indies. No one sells anything. It's clear as day that a lot of these indy wrestlers need to put away their Misawa/Kobashi tapes and put in some good old Memphis. They try so badly to recreate all those AJPW matches from the late 80s and 90s.

Oh yeah and I'm not sure if it's true but I heard there was a match with Davey Richards 9and possibly Eddie Edwards, not too sure) in which the finish saw Richards top rope suplex his opponent and then without releasing it on the mat did another one and then finished with an ankle lock? I can see why that will entertain some, but it does nothing for me. Like I said I haven't seen the match but I can take a guess her and say that, knowing these two men, there was no back work previously done and there definitely wasn't any leg work. But all limb work aside, it's just overdone. A top rope suplex is as big as a spot it gets. It's a move that knocks the wind out of both guys, you're killing the illusion by going directly into a standing suplex and where the heck does the ankle lock come into this? It's way too overdone for my taste.

I just really, really, hate that stiff kicking, elbowing, chopping, no selling, head dropping style of wrestling. There's nothing that breaks my concentration and interest and overall focus more in a match like when I see wrestlers just going move for move. A great example of this that I saw recently and is fresh in my mind is Hamada/Melissa vs Del Rey/Eagles from SHIMMER 39. It got to the point where I just stopped watching. Nothing is more distracting when you're trying to watch a match and it's nothing but a you hit me, I hit you. A good example of an intense match that took place on the card night was Jessica James/Athena. That's how you convey the message of intense. Check that match out. It's a short match but great storytelling.

But like I said dreading that Richards/Elgin. To me the best thing in ROH is Adam Cole. I just hate his style of wrestling as a face. He needs to tone it down. As a heel he worked tremendously though. He's still pretty damn young( which is why this is not a major complain atm for me) but he needs to put on some more size if he wants WWE to start calling. But the guy has the look, he can talk and has the in-ring skills. He's the total package. I've had my eye on him for about 2 years now. He's the only guy on the indies right now that I wanna see in the WWE.

Oh and as for Meltzer, his opinion doesn't mean damn thing to me. He was once a God amongst wrestling fans to me but now I don't give a damn. He also obviously has some sort of bias against WWE. Are you telling me the only ***** match since Bret/Austin was Punk/Cena?
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:21 PM   #533 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

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Originally Posted by Yeah1993 View Post
What does "organic" mean when talking about a wrestling review?
Natural.

Doesn't look forced or played up.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:30 PM   #534 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Oh and I have one more complaint that I forgot to mention about the style of wrestling that I so am not in love with- overdone near falls/roll ups. Have people forgotten the purpose of a roll up? Last time I checked it works perfectly in a match where the babyface has been getting the living hell pounded out of him and then just when you think he has nothing left in the tank, he's able to duck the clothesline off the rebound and roll up the heel. Then, the heel basically gets kicks out and the face runs straight into a clothesline. Can this simple but effective style of wrestling be found on the indies nowadays? I'm just asking.

Not even going to bother to touch on how ridiculous the overdone, let's roll oll over the goddamn place with it, leverage pins are.

Oh and as for nearfalls. Good Lord! False finishes, they're everywhere. It's worse than Atttiude Era false finishes! They get redundant and lose that "Holy shit, how did he kick out!" feel fast.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:32 PM   #535 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TelkEvolon View Post
Natural.

Doesn't look forced or played up.
How in the hell do you play up a review? Its an expression of one's opinion on a match. Am I just being naiive or something because I really can't follow that trail of thought.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:44 PM   #536 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Why does his review look forced though?

I watched the latest NJPW show, the New Japan Cup Day 2. Nothing MOTYC level but Nakamura/Anderson was very enjoyable, and MiSu/Makabe was okay too (I mark for MiSu), but Tanahashi/Naito annoyed the living fuck out of me. Absolutely nothing made sense at all! FUCK!

I was about ready to jump on the Naito bandwagon after the Okada performance which was so great, but the Kojima match didn't do much for me and then there was this! I'm still holding out hope he has more great stuff in him, but he keeps doing the leg work, and the only time it has meant anything was in the Okada match. The Tanahashi match had both guys going after the leg, and non of it led anywhere in th slightest, Tana's selling was okay for like 30 seconds but Naitos was abysmal and they both just completely forgot about it. The last thing we need is another Tanahashi type who uses all these fucking dragon screws for THE WHOLE MATCH, and then hits a bunch of frog splashes and spinning twirly neckbreaker things for no reason. Stupid.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:49 PM   #537 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUBZ View Post
BJW 26/3 Strong Climb Final - Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yoshihito Sasaki
I loved the start with Sekimoto going straight in with his game plan of going after the neck and hitting a backdrop driver. It set the tone for the rest of the match, and Sekimoto was awesome and very methodical going after the neck. I loved Sasaki's first comeback attempt hitting the spear only to sell the neck amazingly allowing Sekimoto to get back up first and continue laying down the law. Again, Sekimoto was so great in this match, I loved how he changed the powerbomb/boston crab combo into an STF so as to go right after the neck again. Sasaki's comeback was well done, but my only problem with the match was that he seemed to forget about his neck in the finishing stretch even though Sekimoto didn't and continued hitting moves all directed at that body part. The actual finish was great with Sasaki throwing everything he had in his striking range and completely laying into Sekimoto who's selling was absolutely incredible. Some of the exchanges were so awesome, I do think the headbutts were way to much though, I mean they were fucking sick and you could clearly hear them legit headbutting eachother. I wish that hadn't had happened, I genuinely couldn't tell if Sekimoto was legit fucked or if his selling was just amazing, but I think and hope it was the latter. Great match though, I just wish Sasaki had sold his neck a lot better in the finishing stertch as it could have elevated this to true greatness, but Sekimoto's performance was legit incredible here.
****1/4

Sekimoto is easily front runner for my WOTY so far by the way.
The 2 things that really sold me on that match were that spot and Daisuke doing a flying elbow to the neck instead of his usual frog splash. It gave the idea that Sekimoto wasn't doing his "formula" match and that he actually had a game plan. It's one of the few times were he actually showed he could work as the "Ace" and it worked perfectly as Sasaki is such a great underdog and he kinda has lived under Daisuke's "shadow" for a long time.

I liked Okada/Naito a lot but there's nothing I saw from that match (or Elgin/Davey, or any other bout I've seen this year so far) that comes close to what Daisuke, Yoshihito and Korakuen Hall did in the Strong Climb Final. I guess the fact I've been following Big Japan for years now and that I'm a massive mark for both guys made the match feel so important to me. I truly felt I was watching something special.
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:53 AM   #538 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

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Originally Posted by Segunda Caida View Post
How in the hell do you play up a review? Its an expression of one's opinion on a match. Am I just being naiive or something because I really can't follow that trail of thought.
Are we talking about the same thing? Doesn't feel like it.

I'm talking about what people can mean when they use the word organic in the review of a wrestling match.

You kinda make it sound like I am reviewing a review.

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Old 04-08-2012, 04:12 AM   #539 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Evolve 10
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Old 04-08-2012, 04:36 AM   #540 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TelkEvolon View Post

Yoy kinda make it sound like I am reviewing a review.
That's pretty much what VIG did. "Meltzer's is better b/c it's more organic" = sort of reviewing the reviews. Sort of.

I just wanted to know how "organic" can apply to a wrestling review itself (not a wrestling match- I get THAT).

Comparing "reviews" on here to Meltzer's is pretty silly anyway. Dave might put thought into it and try to pleas his readers and all that jazz. Someone like me just babbles with swear words and doesn't call it a "review" as much as a "hey this is stuff about the match."

Speaking of which-

Quote:
Originally Posted by me n stuff
Punk v Henry was awesome (hyperbolic, I guess. I mean if I used star ratings it'd be like ***1/2 but I'm picky and think that's almost great), because of a lot of reasons I still remember. Opening was Punk distancing Mark because if he got too close Mark would eat his fucking face off. Henry got past that because he's a fat man and started humiliating and yelling at Punk because he's a mean fat man. The yells of "I OWN YOU," and "DID I TELL YOU TO MOVE" were so big and dominating. Punk's sell of anything Henry did to his back was terrific and I remember those squeals and facials when he was under the ropes or near the corner. Punk tries multiple times to build offense but Henry keeping booting him (some looked NASTY btw) and keeping him from stringing anything together so we have a great little story built for a 12 minute Raw match. If Punk strung anything together Henry may have been in deep shit. Punk WAS in deep shit when Henry lapped on the bear hug and Punk pulled out the most desperate elbow flurry of his life. Looked like a truly awesome struggle and it had the suspense that at any second Henry could shrug it off and turn Punk into meatloaf. Punk finally gets more than a little offense and gets his signature "knee/bulldog," but Henry's STILL not down enough and throws him outside the ring to get a breather. Neither guy can recover- Punk isn't getting back in the ring (back's hurt/he's taken way too much b/w this and the bumps v Jericho) and Henry's shaking off cobwebs too long to do anything about it. I didn't love the finish at all, though. Maybe I asked for too much to have a definitive end to it but I doubt I'd have to explain why a count-out finish isn't preferrable to me.
Needed a nearfall/finish stretch. And a finish.
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