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post #2491 of 2789 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 03:42 AM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

I LOVE the majority of his tags while teaming with Kenny Omega. His tour of ROH in 2008 was a lot of fun. That's where the first match vs Generico occurred. Depending on what you like with wrestling he had a really long and over the top match vs Kenny Omega this year. 8/18 was the date I believe. Had a great match vs Low Ki this year in NJPW on their King of Pro Wrestling iPPV. Oh and there is this...


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post #2492 of 2789 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 05:21 AM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

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Originally Posted by KING KENNY KRINGLE View Post
jfc thats alot of wrestling
Just watch Chikara, PWG and NJPW. For now...
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post #2493 of 2789 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 05:27 AM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

I got him to watch one Chikara match. I consider it a victory.

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post #2494 of 2789 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 06:05 AM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

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Originally Posted by Nervosa View Post
Also, I gotta give a big thumbs down to Ibushi/Generico. You know I love you, Bubz, but I'm sorry, 'COUNTERZ!!!' is not a story. I love counters as much as the next guy: nothing makes me mark out more, usually. But that is literally all there was to this match. A negligible lack of any kind of control and then just two guys going back and forth for most of the match. I know that compared to most on this board, I require a control session to really enjoy a singles match, so maybe that's why I disliked it so much. But if a match ends up being back-and-forth through the entirety of the match, its likely I'll hate it, which is why I hate almost all of Eddie Edwards' matches. I simply saw no story at all here.

From my understanding, people hated Elgin/Davey because there was very little selling behind the random moves and momentum switches. Even so, what little control there was in the backwork was more than anything here. I have only seen both of these matches once, but I continue to be confused by matches like this being loved while Elgin/Richards was hated. Quite frankly, I am baffled that this is a MOTY candidate.
No hard feelings. Sad you didn't like it though . I get that there was no real control segment, and usually that's what I look for the same as you in order to get the story and the meat of the match flowing, but here I really didn't think they needed it to tell the story they were going for. Usually I wouldn't take 'One-upmanship' as a serious story, and sometimes I think that can come off as a poor excuse for a story in a wrestling match, but sometimes if done right, I really , really like it and that was the case here. I definitely saw a story in there, and I thought the big moves were well built to because of the way they were unable to hit them, almost (definitely not quite as good) like some of New Japan matches this year where they build to the finisher so well because of counters and struggles, only this had a more extended finishing run I guess. When I was writing my review for it I was actually thinking it might be pretty divisive with some of the posters I like on here.

Oh, and I really liked Elgin/Richards btw. I think someone like WOOLCOCK mentioned it in their review, but I LOVED the build up to the spinning powerbomb in that match, and it resulted in an amazing nearfall. Yeah, I'm not one to hate that match. Really enjoyed it.
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post #2495 of 2789 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 08:40 AM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

I'll hate it for you.

You know it might have one aspect that I didn't like, but I'm willing to forgive:

Chikara - Aniversario: A Horse of Another Color
Meiko Satomura & Kagetsu vs Sendai Sachiko & DASH Chisako ~ ****

A ton of action going on here. In a substantial way. You have various plots througout the match. The vet in Satomura grounding the hyper active sister duo, classic cutting off the ring tag team work (Kagetsu was really crisp for being the rookie of the bunch), the HOT tag sequence which proved Sendai & DASH to turn the offense on, but not for a finishing stretch, but to take control of the match. Only until Satomura came back and and told those bitches to BOW UP or BACK DOWN. In which they decided for the former so they got FUCKING HUMBLED~! Satomura's strikes are nuts. Nothing tops the motherfucking cartwheel KNEE DROP though. Brutal. Granted one of the straight kicks to the face was enough to make fans jump out of their seat. (I know I did) It's the classic case of awesome b/c it goes a long amount of time - nearly 19 minutes - and you still want MORE. Always the best when they leave you fulfilled, yet you want to be like a real American and as for thirds & fourths b/c we're a bunch of greedy twats. I digress. This was awesome. Knocking back all of these Chikara shows is even better the second time around.

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post #2496 of 2789 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 02:37 PM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Couple of points:

- I like Elgin, and think he's good. Well, mostly good, not always. His finishing combos look incredibly awesome and compelling, especially in PWG. His control sessions are nothing to write hom about it, but they're not terrible in ORTON range either.

- For the love of God, I can't see anything special in the Eddie/Elgin match, it was your typical Elgin affair. Not that there's anything wrong with it.

- Eddie is so awesome to watch in PWG, he's having great time over there.

- Eddie/Cole from BOLA is a fucking AMAZING match.

- Need to see the Kota/Generico trilogy, it takes me forever, damn it!

- That KOT 4-Way is bad and makes no sense... but I like it, damn it!

- Davey/Elgin is not THAT bad, it's just... there... in both ROH and PWG. Nothing special tbh, but nothing DUDworthy either. Can't remember the SITS rating, and the PWG one I have at **.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nervosa View Post
To me, with no control segment, there is no comeback, and its very hard to develop a story after that.
I love you, but that's bullshit, bro. You can tell stories in wrestling matches on millions different ways and contours. There's so much patterns, IMO, and A doesn't nix B or vice versa.
Quote:
[CENTER]Chikara - Aniversario: A Horse of Another Color
Meiko Satomura & Kagetsu vs Sendai Sachiko & DASH Chisako ~ ****
Have you seen the amazing Joshi tag from KOT n3? #iwannamarrycommandobolshoi
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post #2497 of 2789 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 05:06 PM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

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Originally Posted by JoeRulz View Post
I love you, but that's bullshit, bro. You can tell stories in wrestling matches on millions different ways and contours. There's so much patterns, IMO, and A doesn't nix B or vice versa.
I know there are other patterns, I just have a really hard time calling a singles match a MOTY without it. Do you think you could give some examples of some truly great matches from the past several years that didn't follow that formula? I am legitimately trying to see things outside of my usual perspective.
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post #2498 of 2789 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 06:29 PM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

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Originally Posted by Nervosa View Post
I know there are other patterns, I just have a really hard time calling a singles match a MOTY without it. Do you think you could give some examples of some truly great matches from the past several years that didn't follow that formula? I am legitimately trying to see things outside of my usual perspective.
You didn't ask me, but from what I've seen on this board, it seems to me that you've seen a number of matches from the past several years that didn't follow that formula, and which many others would consider "truly great matches." (Richards/Edwards from Best in the World 2011 would probably be the most obvious example I can think of.) In general, however, you've felt they were not great matches specifically because they didn't follow that formula.

Rather than seeking out matches you haven't seen, I'd suggest revisiting matches you'd previously written off with as different a set of eyes as possible.
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post #2499 of 2789 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 07:02 PM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

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Originally Posted by Bruce L View Post
You didn't ask me, but from what I've seen on this board, it seems to me that you've seen a number of matches from the past several years that didn't follow that formula, and which many others would consider "truly great matches." (Richards/Edwards from Best in the World 2011 would probably be the most obvious example I can think of.) In general, however, you've felt they were not great matches specifically because they didn't follow that formula.

Rather than seeking out matches you haven't seen, I'd suggest revisiting matches you'd previously written off with as different a set of eyes as possible.
This is a really good point, but I will say that since then, most people seem to have ended up agreeing with me on matches like the one you mentioned in addition to both Taker/Trips matches and the like. These days, its pretty rare that I ever see a match promoted without control, so I was just wondering if maybe I missed something that illustrates what people like about that format. If Eddie/Davey is really the best example, I guess its just hopeless for me to ever like that kind of match.

Last edited by Nervosa; 12-25-2012 at 07:10 PM.
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post #2500 of 2789 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 07:32 PM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

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Originally Posted by JoeRulz View Post
Have you seen the amazing Joshi tag from KOT n3? #iwannamarrycommandobolshoi
I did, but I'm in the process of running back over the shows atm. I know I marked for it, but honestly a lot of the Joshi moments of the weekend blend together in my mind. ~!

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