[asdf0501]

Originally Posted by JoeRulz

And yeah, he's by far the best Junior in Japan, he needs to keep that GHC Jr. Hewiki at least until September-October.

Naaaahhhh

He is not in Hayato, Riu or Kenou Level

[Bubz]

From what I've seen I think he's better than Hayato, but I haven't seen much of the other two at all.

[sonny james]

Originally Posted by Rah

I'm relatively knew to this thread concept, too - having only come in towards the end of 2011, I believe.

Just from what I've learnt is that you're going to have moments where you're going to look at something and wonder why you rated it in a certain way when a newer match was heaps better and you're going to have to give it a similar rating. Reflection is always key, and continually evaluating your previously rated matches as you go along will help keep a Match of the Year list as close to your ever changing standards as possible. Like myself, for instance, I had to readjust my entire list the other week when I realised I was being too lenient with my ratings (and knocked about .25 to .5 stars off all my ratings).

I'm not sure how many matches you've watched or how great your background is in different promotions (both American Indy and International), so forgive me if I seem to make you out to be new to this, but I'm very, very new to this, as well. Accurate reflection only comes from a greater depth in match-viewing where you've watched "the classics" and can then compare and contrast newer matches with what the benchmark actually is and it's there that quite a few posters in this thread work from. It's also why my ratings are probably a lot more liberal than them, as well. That's not to say, though, that you should change your ratings to reflect theirs (where is the fun in that? ) but just to also see where you differ to them and to, perhaps, spark debate on why you found it good/bad and they didn't.

Other than that, welcome. Don't be too overwhelmed with the amount of matches that will pop-up over the course of the year, but do try and use the nominations as a basis of what to actively look for in the hopes of watching - especially the Japanese matches. 2011 was an amazing year for me, quality-wise, and it's because of threads like these that help sift through the dirt and reveal the golden nuggets that would have slipped under your radar otherwise.



I'm not sure if it's a standard concept from SMASH but what was probably the greatest of the little touches was the playing of the anthems before the commencement of the match and Tajiri praying for the strength to pull out the victory.

It's always the little things that play the biggest role in creating a great atmosphere and, in turn, a great match, if you ask me.



I had to look the spelling up just to double check, too. It looks weird, but it's right.

Thanks for the insight. As for me, i've been a fan for over 30 years now. Grew up watching Stampede Wrestling. So as a base, I think I have it covered! Definitely have a lot to learn about wrestling from Japan, although I have watched a lot of Misawa, Kobashi, etc.. Also a huge fan of Tanahashi and Shiozaki. This is the place to be though, from the looks of it! Going to enjoy this thread, and this year.

[Seabs]

Hayato isn't all that good at working matches over 10 minutes. Nakajima isn't that good unless he's got the right opponent these days either but I'd still say he's up there as the best. Not THE best though. That'd be either Ibushi, Marvin or Yamato. I guess you could say half the DG roster are better juniors too if you want to include them.

[Bubz]

Hadn't thought about the DG guys actually, I never really count them for some reason. Yeah Ibushi is great too, I prefer Nakajimas style though. Yamato as in the AJPW guy? I haven't seen anything bar the Omega match earlier this year to be honest.

[asdf0501]

Originally Posted by Seabs

Hayato isn't all that good at working matches over 10 minutes. Nakajima isn't that good unless he's got the right opponent these days either but I'd still say he's up there as the best. Not THE best though. That'd be either Ibushi, Marvin or Yamato. I guess you could say half the DG roster are better juniors too if you want to include them.

I don't think so.

Hayato can have great matches over the ten minutes mark and examples of that are his matches with yoshitsune, Sasuke and Kenou. Also can be a great dick heel like his Kowloon work prove it but at the same time can be a incredible underdog like in his matches with Kenou. And Finally His offense, expressions and selling are great

Any Junior in Japan today will have problems working over 10 minutes, outside FUTEN or Michinoku-Pro, because they try so hard to have this "epics" and much of the early work in the matches seems filler, and then we have this awful exchanges sections that seems obligatory when 90% of the juniors have awful strikes, kicks and clothslines. Nakajima has been bulking good and is one of the few that i can say has good offense but can't lead a match even if his life depend of that, generally blows the early work and have this awful and obligatory exchanges also.

[Seabs]

Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012
I was nervous that this wouldn't be great but damn me for ever doubting these two in BJW because they NEVER fail to deliver these days. I was expecting more of a early 90's Steiners bomb fest from them but it was far from being that but they still made it work in their own unique way. They take a while to really get going but the feeling out process is really good and it works that start off slower with the partner vs partner deal and not wanting to make a mistake against the other because they no they can get punished for it. Yuji is amazing yet again and I promise you come 2012 he'll be rule of the entire world. He really brings to Daisuke and the crowd go nuts for him which was wonderful. Eventually towards the end it breaks down into more of a heavyweight style bomb fest but in a good way because once they bust out the heavy artillery you know the finish is coming soon because nobody can take their bombs for long. I do wish wrestlers wouldn't headbutt each other really hard but if it's gonna happen then this was the match to do it in because it was a great strong man match. They went about in a slightly different way to Sugiura/Sasaki last year but with an equally great outcome at the end of it. I love matches where the lower guys gets put over huge but they still keep the hierarchy in tact with the higher guy on the card being pushed to the limit but still claiming the victory. Loads of great near falls on Daisuke. At the risk of sound like a bit of a hypocrite I kinda wished they'd done a kickout or two more with Yuji to get over his fire but far better to be wanting more than doing too many. Got the feeling from the result they might do this match again in the Final with Yuji going over. That or they'll do Sasaki vs Shinobu in the final at last.

****

Watched Finlay vs Tajiri too. Bored the life out of me at times. I liked the story and I didn't dislike anything they did but it was just far too slow and dull to ever grab my attention and never seemed to get out of first gear. Dark arena and quiet crowd certainly didn't help from my own personal standpoint either. Good match on paper but not good enough or maybe better put interesting enough in execution.

[JoeRulz]

Ibushi, Marvin, Omega and Hayato are all great, but Jima is a top notch Junior, and he can work longer matches effectively too. One guy that is often overlooked is Kento Miyahara, that guy is pretty good.

As far as Dragon Gate guys are concerned, sure - they are mostly Juniors, but I don't count them, because they are somehow a different entity from the rest of the Puro. But yeah - Tozawa, YAMATO, Mochizuki and maybe even Doi are better than Nakajima.

[MF83]

Ricky Marvin does not belong in a best juniors discussion in any way in my opinion.

This new NOAH Nakajima is hit or miss. He was easily the best junior in the country before he turned into the typical no-sell/overkill NOAH junior. He is still tremendous at working a strategy and shorter matches in general, but he hasn't mastered his NOAH self yet. I miss him as a face.

Outside of Dragon Gate, I would toss out Ibushi and heel KENTA as the two best and would say Nakajima, Hikaru Sato and Devitt round out the top 5. Hayato has had a few great matches, and because of that people tend to rank him up there but he isn't that reliable. Hiroshi Yamato is getting there, but not yet. Fucking super rookie KAI had to go and get worse rather than better. That guy could have been special, oh well. Kondo would probably be up there if he booked himself better. Kotaro is the NOAH style personified minus the persona, so that's however you want to interpret that. Yeah.

[TelkEvolon]

Atsushi Aoki is the best Junior.