The 2012 MOTYC thread - Page 248 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:52 AM   #2471 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

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Originally Posted by Nervosa View Post
Ah, I understand a bit more now, thank you for clarifying. I think I am separating two different things that you think aren't necessary exclusive.

For me, I don't see a story in a match with no control. All matches with no control look the same, and at that point, I am just judging the coolness of spots rather than an actual story. Your discussion of the importance of 'flow' helps a little bit, and I totally understand how a lot of matches shift gears much too suddenly.

I guess even our definitions of selling could be completely different. Is selling just showing pain, favoring a limb, or being unable to recover with your own offense for a while? For me, that third one is as important as the other two, and if a whole match is just two guys hitting spots and counters, as I think Ibushi/Generico was, I have a hard time calling that good selling. I mean, when it comes to brass tax, Generico makes everything look great just by how be bumps and emotes physically, which is awesome. But When Ibushi nails a huge moves and Generico immediately counters the very next thing, it makes me think the previous move must not have been as effective as it looks.

I should also clarify, to go along with your last paragraph a bit, that I don't think undercard matches necessarily need control segments, and I think tag matches fall under a different realm of evaluation, so I don't need a control segment every time. But in a top singles match, if there's no control, it seems to morph into a 'spot and counter' exhibition more than a match with a story.
I'd say selling is a mix of all 3 aspects you brought up. Showing the pain while taking the punishment. Getting that emotion from the fans if it is a face in peril segment. Favoring the limb is key & as is being unable to recover. I LOVE spots when they make it seem they will no-sell adrenaline rush through the pain and then out of nowwhere BOOM, totally sold the injured body part and can't connect with what they wanted.

Ibushi didn't really incorporate that much in the first match with Generico. Which is why I brought up the point about thoughtless control segments in my last post. When I see some matches go into full moves/action mode it depends for me if I can deem there is no story. (I'm stuck on that whole "depends how it goes - sometimes yes/sometimes no" kind of fact. That's just how I view matches, man)

I agree about the difference in singles match control phases and tag team. Completely different dynamics every time.
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:58 AM   #2472 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

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Originally Posted by Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! View Post
(I'm stuck on that whole "depends how it goes - sometimes yes/sometimes no" kind of fact. That's just how I view matches, man)
Yeah, I think I might be trying to quantify the unquantifiable with this topic. I have kinda asked this same question many times, and this is usually what people say. I'm really just trying to understand where people draw the line, when it comes down to it. I guess I feel like there has to be something that everyone sees in control-less matches that makes some better than others, and I'm just trying to see it. I don't know a good control-less match from a bad one, so I'm kinda trying to figure it out.

I guess its really just about this Elgin/Richards match where I just don't see where the rage comes from when a lot of matches seem similar to me, this Generico/Ibushi match just being the one that broke the camel's back, I guess.

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Old 12-25-2012, 02:00 AM   #2473 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

I think part of it is b/c of the pedestal that Davey vs Elgin got placed on. Then you watch and and it's not quite up to the level that it was said to be. That's what I felt about it. Felt like usual Davey trash to me.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:01 AM   #2474 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

what are some other wrstling promotions?
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:03 AM   #2475 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

That makes a lot of sense. I have never liked Davey's stuff since 09 (I LOVED Richards 06-09), but I really enjoyed the Elgin match, and thought the back-selling as good, and that all of the finishing stuff, while frenzied, never seemed to lose purpose. I thought people hated it just because it was tons of spots for no reason, but I see matches praised on here that do the exact same thing, which is more than a little confusing I guess.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:04 AM   #2476 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Chikara
PWG
ROH
CZW
EVOLVE
Dragon Gate USA
SHIMMER
SHINE
Interspecies Wrestling
New Japan Pro Wrestling
All Japan Pro Wrestling
Pro Wrestling NOAH
DDT
Big Japan Wrestling
Dragon Gate
Osaka Pro
SMASH
Ice Ribbon
Diamond Ring
Westside Xtreme Wrestling
AAA
CMLL

etc.

Quote:
That makes a lot of sense. I have never liked Davey's stuff since 09 (I LOVED Richards 06-09), but I really enjoyed the Elgin match, and thought the back-selling as good, and that all of the finishing stuff, while frenzied, never seemed to lose purpose. I thought people hated it just because it was tons of spots for no reason, but I see matches praised on here that do the exact same thing, which is more than a little confusing I guess.
I to loved Davey back in the day. I can't take his work most time nowadays. I don't credit him for the reason why I liked the tag match at Final Battle, but he was involved. Can't deny that.

The Davey/Elgin match was so convaluted for me to care. I scoffed it off pretty easily. Not my cup o' tea. But, it all comes down to taste really. If you found it for what it was then more power to ya. I don't see it nor will I ever.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:06 AM   #2477 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

jfc thats alot of wrestling
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:11 AM   #2478 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread



there's MUCH more in this world beyond WWE & TNA.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:13 AM   #2479 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

i know that but still. what promotions do you like?
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:16 AM   #2480 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

I can honestly say all of the ones I listed at one point or another. All Japan doesn't capture my interest atm and ROH is FAR from being where it once was, but I still give them (mostly ROH) the time of day. My favorites would be Chikara, New Japan Pro Wrestling, & PWG. IMO the 3 best promotions going today. I know someone will rival Big Japan, but I'll stick with what I chose. Once again, preference plays a part.

I wished HUSTLE was still around. Now that was one of my favorites. Ok I guess with DDT around. Glad I got more into those guys. It's like WWE Japan.
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