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Old 12-21-2012, 10:12 PM   #2371 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

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Originally Posted by sharkboy22 View Post
You didn't find Generico/Steen over the top? Really? Maybe you should go and re-watch it. The match is nothing but high spot>stall for some time>high spot and so on and so on. The match is just both guys using weapons. Every thing that they do involves the use of the weapon and it's just one big set up to a "Holy shit moment"

I couldn't get into it at all. It just felt like I was watching a circus show (then again every indy match feels like that) Typical indy match where it's just really a demonstration of maneuvers rather than, gee i don't know, an actual match. There was some moments where I thought some brilliant psychology was going to be used but I was wrong. I credit Steen for ripping the mask open to expose Genrico's face to bust him over but he just went about wrong. Two solid punches to the face followed up by Generico selling it like a boss *insert blading* and bingo! It would have gotten more over than his circus show of front flips onto the chair. It's a damn circus show, these indy matches!

Then it went into full indy mode and from the moment I saw it I knew it was coming up The thing I dread most about these matches- the finishing stretch. Where it turns into nothing but a finisher fest followed by kickouts.

Generico did the dragon suplex (I believe it was) onto a chair. That did nothing. And I can't even remember the match and it's more or less fresh out of my mind. That's to tell you the amount of ridiculous, meaningless spots there were in this match. Oh and why is it everytime ROH is doing a no-DQ match it follows this pattern

1) The heel managers puts his client's feet on the ropes
2) Ref gets knocked out
3) Some dude from the back comes running down, knocks manager out
4) Gives the babyface a weapn
5) Babyface uses it but heels kick out

and well step 6 is some more over the top shit until fuck me! We get into the finish. Honestly, if all that shit didn't knock Steen out and the Yakuza kick into the fucking brainbuster on the top rope didn't do either, then the only believable finish would be to have Genrico drag a fucking cannon ball to the ring, light the son of a bitch and blow a fucking hole in Steen's stomach. But, despite all that, the most effective thing was one steel chair to the head. Terrible match imo. The fact that it goes 30 minutes doesn't help either. That's just my take on the match.

But on a more interesting note, what gives with these overbooked finishes in ROH? Every no-DQ match, it's the same shit. I've seen it in Joe/Brisco steel cage (which was fucking awesome I might add), Punk/Raven, now this match and even this year there was some match with Steen where the same pattern of swerving and over booking was used. Was it against Richards? Can't remember, but somebody got fucking stabbed. The irony of it all is that one of them got on the mic and praised the other for the match. Umm, he just fucking stabbed you! lol. I can't remember if that's exactly what happened but I know for sure that earlier this year ROH overbooked the shit out of a match and somebody got stabbed.
I felt similar to this on my first few watchings of the Steen/Generico match, but when I understood the match and the hatred in the feud and watched it again it became one of my favorite matches. Definitely in my top 3. I feel like all of the big spots are justified and the emotion is great. It isn't WORKRATE~! or anything but it told such a good story. Each guy having to throw everything they had and not being able to pull out the win. The overbooked Cabana/Corino stuff made sense, it wouldn't make sense if they DIDN'T try to help their partners. I felt that everything here was necessary including the crazy kick outs and spots. The finish made the feud come full circle, and it couldn' have been done any better.

Then when you add on Steen's shouting at Generico throughout the matches it only gets better. "Do you wanna die for real, El Generico? I'll give you your wish" "Remember the ladder wars we lost because of you?!" (Pardon any misquotes going off memory) The image of Steen holding out Generico's mask and begging for mercy will seem iconic to me, and the chair shot gives me the chills every time.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:16 PM   #2372 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Hey, to each his own. I just wanted to support my argument rather than just throw a statement out there.

But, ummm, I have about 10 minutes left till this crapfest of a Elgins vs Richards is over and I really don't know if I could hold on. It's so fucking bad lol. I'm getting a headache watching the damn thing. Since it's a 2012 match and apparently a MOTYC, I'll post a review when I'm done. Hopefully, I could remember how to type and speak english after hitting myself in the head with a hammer as a form punishment for ever deciding to touch this shit.

Only reason I'm watching this is because I'm getting bored of WWE matches and I need a legit reason to post 200 angry posts when the Observer hands this the MOTY award. I believe it's gonna get it.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:23 PM   #2373 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

I was going to post this in the indy thread but since Seabs brought it up here I'll throw her here.

Kahagas vs. Damien Wayne:***1/2
I’ve heard so many good things about Damien Wayne. Oppositely I’ve heard mostly bad things about Kahagas. I still stand by Kahagas not being the right guy for the NWA to put the title on even more so after watching a little of Wayne and the way they did it wouldn’t be considered okay no matter what. This match though showed me a little of Kahagas that I may be able to like. This lasts for MAYBE 10 minutes but what a fun 10 minutes it was. These guys brawl around for almost the entire time and it is so much fun. There’s blood, there’s chops, there’s people enjoying their dinner and a show, and there’s an awesome apron leg drop spot. That will give you a good match 9 out of 10 times. Not the greatest match of the year but the solid ten minutes of brawling is worth it.

While I don't love this match as some other people, I sure did enjoy the hell out of it. Oh and the commentator is friggin' great as said.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:41 PM   #2374 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

I hear a lot of people say things like "It's the context of the match" but to me, that has nothing to do with it. I remember a while back when I shat on Punk/Airires people were telling me, it's because I took it out of context. The part where Punk popped up like nothing after the Pepsi Plunge was apparently to show his determination. You could be the most determined motherfucker around, someone hits you that (not to mention all the fucking cannon balls of moves from before) it's light out. I probably wouldn't have mind had Punk kick out of a 2 but to get directly up after it, is stupid if you ask me.

In the case of Generico/Steen, I get it was a year in the making but there's so many other ways to go about it. Start off with a brawl, then introduce the weapons. It's foreplay>fucking>rest>fucking>cumshot. Not cumshot>rest>cumshot>rest>cumshot>cumshot>cumshot. And, the finish, meh. I get the message is determination but they went about it wrong imo. You don't need to drop a guy on his head and have him kick out 3 times in 2 minutes to show he's desperate. It become a finisher and nearfall fest quickly. There was just too much head dropping and near falls. These things do not make a match dramatic nor do they add any sort of story. It's just annoying imo. Even if that was the route to put over the whole "What do I have to do to put this guy out" one steel chair certainly isn't as clearly 50 weren't. I get what the match is trying to convey but imo under no circumstance is working a match like this believable. It's like the veteran vs rookie story where the veteran drops the son of a bitch 20 times on his head only to have the rookie drop him about 2 times and win the match. It's just never the way to work a match imo. I don't care how determined you are, I drop you your head, you lay here bitch. Once, you kick out maybe. Twice....eh. But by the third time, that's it. Four, five and six times and the match ventures into finisher fest. Especially when right after dropping you on your head, you get up like nothing and drop me on my head and we basically take turns on each other.

Ah but fuck it. Speaking of out of context, this entire fucking post is out of context lol. I just needed a place to discuss why i think indy wrestling is in the toilet and well this place needs a match discussion thread dammit!
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:05 AM   #2375 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkboy22 View Post
I hear a lot of people say things like "It's the context of the match" but to me, that has nothing to do with it. I remember a while back when I shat on Punk/Airires people were telling me, it's because I took it out of context. The part where Punk popped up like nothing after the Pepsi Plunge was apparently to show his determination. You could be the most determined motherfucker around, someone hits you that (not to mention all the fucking cannon balls of moves from before) it's light out. I probably wouldn't have mind had Punk kick out of a 2 but to get directly up after it, is stupid if you ask me.

In the case of Generico/Steen, I get it was a year in the making but there's so many other ways to go about it. Start off with a brawl, then introduce the weapons. It's foreplay>fucking>rest>fucking>cumshot. Not cumshot>rest>cumshot>rest>cumshot>cumshot>cumshot. And, the finish, meh. I get the message is determination but they went about it wrong imo. You don't need to drop a guy on his head and have him kick out 3 times in 2 minutes to show he's desperate. It become a finisher and nearfall fest quickly. There was just too much head dropping and near falls. These things do not make a match dramatic nor do they add any sort of story. It's just annoying imo. Even if that was the route to put over the whole "What do I have to do to put this guy out" one steel chair certainly isn't as clearly 50 weren't. I get what the match is trying to convey but imo under no circumstance is working a match like this believable. It's like the veteran vs rookie story where the veteran drops the son of a bitch 20 times on his head only to have the rookie drop him about 2 times and win the match. It's just never the way to work a match imo. I don't care how determined you are, I drop you your head, you lay here bitch. Once, you kick out maybe. Twice....eh. But by the third time, that's it. Four, five and six times and the match ventures into finisher fest. Especially when right after dropping you on your head, you get up like nothing and drop me on my head and we basically take turns on each other.

Ah but fuck it. Speaking of out of context, this entire fucking post is out of context lol. I just needed a place to discuss why i think indy wrestling is in the toilet and well this place needs a match discussion thread dammit!
It's that whole FIGHTING SPIRIT type deal. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Not surprised you struggled with Davey/Elgin if Generico/Steen couldn't speak to you. It's flat out bad. Also not surprised Meltzer creamed for it. He tends to love matches that go a million miles an hour and done in poor fashion.

I'll get on the official start of Kahagas/Wayne right now. Basketball pulled me away for a few hours.

Btw, the Indie DVD thread is the equivalent of the General Match/DVD/Show discussion thread in the Other Wrestling section.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:19 AM   #2376 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Well, just to start a whole new flame war....

Ziggler vs. Cena from Sunday was absolutely HORRIBLE. It's not everyday I agree with Capone but holy crap was this match awful. I don't even understand how everyone seemed to think this was 4 stars. Has the internet's hard-on for Dolph blinded everyone from how horrible this was?

Cena doing roll-ups and submissions during a ladder match was just the beginning. I hate when this happens and he looked like a total dork for it, but I can overlook that part I guess.

But then....

Cena spends an inordinate amount of time in the early going just wandering around aimlessly while Ziggler sells. He changes his mind like 6 fucking times when he is taking the ring steps apart. He just looks like he is completely lost. There were so many points in the match where it seemed like both guys were looking for something that wasn't there.

Then we have that sleeper spot. Anyone who can explain the psychology of that entire thing deserves a nobel prize. Cena climbs the ladder while in a sleeper............as if when he gets to the top Ziggler isn't gonna be a full foot above him since he is applying the hold. Then he passes out.....and Ziggler just holds on while they both fall through a table. Just.....incredible levels of 'what-the-hell-was-that.' I have no freaking clue why anyone would ever do what either guy did for that spot. Silly is the most positive word I can come up with.

And then....the worst fucking thing I have ever seen: John Cena's hurricurana. There are not enough words in the English language to describe the utter shit of that execution. Every single fucking Mexican Wrestler in the last 40 years, plus both Steiner Brothers, turned over in their graves when that happened. Ziggler's bump after that was the stuff of legends. Absolutely ridiculous.

The finish is awesome, of course. But everything in before that, even besides the low points I mentioned, was just your typical 2-man plodding spot trading ladder match that WWE has done for the past 8 years or so. Take away the problems I mentioned and its a generic boring match we've all seen before. With all this crap...........this is just bad.

I really try to be the guy who reminds everyone that Cena is really a good wrestler and doesn't deserve to be shit on considering how good he actually is. I have spent a lot of time arguing with those who would say Cena sucks and can't wrestle. I just really gotta hope they didn't see this match the next time I get in that argument. Because this was just idiotic, and sadly, a lot of it is his fault, in my opinion.

Last edited by Nervosa : 12-22-2012 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:23 AM   #2377 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

***1/2 for me.

Hurricanrana didn't irk me at all. It was sloppy, but when has John-boy ever tried it? No harm, no foul. I actually liked the sleeperhold table spot

EDIT ~ Kahagas vs Wayne was unbelievable FUN. ***3/4. Best commentary of the year? Possibly.
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:33 AM   #2378 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Can Sharkboy stop looking for excuses to post about how shit indie wrestling is please. We all know what you think and the majority of people agree with you. It's getting fucking tedious.
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:35 AM   #2379 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Me pimping an obscure Indy match actually got people to watch it? Yay!

I thought Cena/Ziggler sucked too.
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:38 AM   #2380 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

To be truthful Seabs I watched that match a few days ago. I just hadn't decided when to post my thoughts :P
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