The 2012 MOTYC thread - Page 190 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, ROH, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
Reply

Old 11-11-2012, 08:25 AM   #1891 (permalink)
Working on a novel about about nothing
 
Concrete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Castle Creek,NY
Posts: 1,371
Concrete 2501 - 3000Concrete 2501 - 3000Concrete 2501 - 3000Concrete 2501 - 3000Concrete 2501 - 3000Concrete 2501 - 3000Concrete 2501 - 3000Concrete 2501 - 3000Concrete 2501 - 3000Concrete 2501 - 3000Concrete 2501 - 3000
Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Jigsaw vs. Eddie Kingston(Chikara’s Aniversario:The Ogg and I):****
Kingston is the man (not really big news there). I really love some of the little things he does like whenever he has a submission he will tell the referee to ask his opponent if he quits. This is one of the matches in what I would call the best title reign going in America right now. Jigsaw is no slouch either though he is more typical of an indy fellow. That sort of played into things for me honestly.

In the earlier parts of the match Jigsaw hits the weak knee of Kingston and works it for a bit and Kingston sells it really well as always. It is when Jigsaw starts taking it to Kingston with success that he abandons working the leg for a style he is more comfortable with and that’s hitting people in the head with his foot.

Another thing Kingston does in this match that I thought was nifty was using the count on the outside. He’s got the championship advantage so when he is getting beaten up by Jigsaw, he goes to the bar area to get a breather while Jigsaw has to go to the ring to restart the count. When Kingston had the advantage on Jigsaw he did a Kingston dive spot and then took a breather again, this time in the ring.

Something Chikara is really good at doing is having their big matches build. Along with that they know that every show doesn’t need a big match on it. These guys build with matwork towards the beginning, some crowd brawling in the middle-ish, and then end with a fantastic finishing stretch. Chikara doesn’t really have both guys bust out all there big moves but these guys did it and Kingston ends it in a perfect and brutal way. Not going to win MOTY for real or anything but a great match in Kingston’s reign for sure.




Sara Del Rey vs. Eddie Kingston(Chikara’s The Great Escape):****1/2
This match was absolutely incredible. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone give this match this high of a rating but to me this was one of the best matches of the year and in my Top 5 for sure and right up there with Kingston vs. Quack at High Noon. I’d also like to say, many have said it and that doesn’t make any less true, that this is a match you’d only see in Chikara.

Kingston is one of the best male wrestlers on the American indy scene and I could maybe think of only one guy I would put ahead of him for sure. Del Rey was the greatest female wrestler on the indys and possibly the entire world. I don’t think there are any North American female wrestlers I would put above her, EVER. You mix these two elements together with the willingness of a company willing to have a truly competitive match between a male and a female and that’s a recipe for success.

During the entire match Kingston makes a point that he doesn’t think he should be wrestling this woman. He doesn’t do what some men would do in this situation when approaching a match against a woman in this way. Other men would do lots of exaggerating taunting right in front of the woman. Kingston does taunt Del Rey but while he is either beating up her or getting beat up by her. In the earlier parts of the match he is getting kicked and even though he is clearly getting his shit rocked his shit rocked he says “C’mon sweetheart”. Another part that has less to do with Del Rey being a lady is when she goes for a submission on the leg and Kingston says “You’ve gotta be kidding me,” and thus Del Rey replies by standing up and kicking the piss out of the leg which starts a “She’s not kidding” chant. That was awesome.

The amount of emotion in this match from Del Rey is simply a sight to behold. There is a point in the match where she had a crossface locked in and it looked like she was trying to use her legs more to damage Kingston’s arm that she had been working 2/3 of the match I’d say and her facial expressions are perfect. You think she is about to cry because she is giving everything she has and she wants to win so damn badly.

Though I thought the finish could have been ever so slightly better the entire match as a whole was beauty that I really haven’t seen anywhere else outside of Chikara. You can tell why WWE wanted Sara to train their divas. She is one of the best wrestlers on the planet (man or female) and maybe the saddest thing about this is that this would be the last great match we may ever see her in.

Concrete is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 11-11-2012, 08:47 AM   #1892 (permalink)
Little Poppa Pump
 
Eclairal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: France
Posts: 2,475
Eclairal 1001 - 1500Eclairal 1001 - 1500Eclairal 1001 - 1500Eclairal 1001 - 1500Eclairal 1001 - 1500Eclairal 1001 - 1500Eclairal 1001 - 1500Eclairal 1001 - 1500Eclairal 1001 - 1500Eclairal 1001 - 1500
Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

My MOTY is Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan at Extreme Rules
__________________


Credit to Xist2inspire for the sign
Eclairal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 09:12 AM   #1893 (permalink)
Getting ignored by SCOTT STEINER
 
ywall2breakerj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Croatia
Posts: 639
ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500
Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

The "storytelling" in Aries-Ray stroke me as the same melodramatic bullshit in the Taker-HHH matches.



The match started of with Bully's annoying shtick which Aries reacted to simply by lying down on the top rope. THAT was marvelous. So what does he follow it up with? Yelling "I'm not scared of you" and so on and bringing himself down to Ray's level. It didn't make me want to cheer Aries, it just made them both look like immature idiots. I felt like I was wathing two five year olds fighting. Everything after that felt forced nad I struggle to remember the parts of it I enjoyed. A cool bump, a grat nearfall....Aries' offence probably had something good as well but that's it really. Not how you do a big man (which doesn't even legitimately look like) vs little man match in my book.
__________________

^CHAMPviaDQ™
Awesome sig by Tulf Yujiro GIF1Yujiro GIF2 The Holy Music
~2013 G1 Glimax Fantasy League Winner ~
ywall2breakerj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 09:27 AM   #1894 (permalink)
TAKIN' A MULLIGAN
 
Chismo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WHERE THE BUFFALO ROAM
Posts: 14,875
Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000
Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nervosa View Post
I mean, I'm not saying it doesn't work as a character, and when most of his matches are meaningless 8 minutes brawls, who cares if he gives up control?

Its only when a match has really built up a cool story that taking a time out to go argue with the guy TNA wants us to pretend isn't Abyss that it really bothers me. They were kinda playing up that Bully was becoming legitimately scared of Aries after he kept getting up from the strikes. If I am to believe that Bully really thinks Aries is crazy and he is worried about him, I can't see him going to the outside just because Park is yelling about the chain. It seems more likely to me that Bully would say 'F*ck Joe Park' and just do what he wanted to do, especially if they wanted to build up that Bully was becoming legitimately scared of Aries' toughness.

I guess it just seems so unnecessary to take a little timeout from the match for some empty storyline advancement with a separate feud.
You're looking at things wrong way, man. You're taking the "wrestler A needed to do this, and wrestler B made a mistake after that" route, instead of coping with what you got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enlightenedone9 View Post
Jigsaw vs. Eddie Kingston(Chikara’s Aniversario:The Ogg and I):****

Sara Del Rey vs. Eddie Kingston(Chikara’s The Great Escape):****1/2
Yes! King/Jigsaw was bloody awesome, and I need to re-watch it now.

Kins/Sara, sheeeeeit, I have it downloaded, but didn't catch it yet.
__________________
http://www.filmdogsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/EdWood1.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanbrian View Post
TV shows are the best entertainment programmes like wrestling. My favourite TV show is RAW and SMACK DOWN. I specially like fight of Rey mysterio and Randy Ortan. It was very amazing fight with lots of stunt.
Chismo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 10:07 AM   #1895 (permalink)
Acknowledged by SCOTT STEINER
 
Zatiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,071
Zatiel 501 - 1000Zatiel 501 - 1000Zatiel 501 - 1000Zatiel 501 - 1000Zatiel 501 - 1000Zatiel 501 - 1000Zatiel 501 - 1000
Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailsabin View Post
All Joe Park did was yell at the ref that Bully has the chain. Didn't do much to hurt the match.

Fail to see how it's generic. Probably because it didn't have enough MOVEZ in it. Only fantastic storytelling.
I'm tempted to be as dismissive as you are here and question your sentence comprehension, given that I explained why it was generic in that post. But that wouldn't help convince you, just as you didn't contribute to conversation with this post. Let me be clearer.

How is it generic? Because it followed a structure that is done in television matches in multiple companies every week. Sympathy-Guy shows fire, gets beat up by Mean-Guy, makes big comeback and wins. It did nothing new and was deathly predictable. They did not have original counters or study each other for cut-offs; they did not have any deviation from a standard match-story that is the hallmark of better matches. Of course this beating was just setting up Aries's comeback - if anything, the Park stuff was just a further excuse for it that made it more obvious.

Watch Turning Point tonight and you're guaranteed to see the same story with the same lack of nuance in at least one match; same on Raw, Impact and Smackdown. The difference is some of these matches won't have the quality of devoted personality, which is the only thing that set this apart.

You're welcome to explain what you saw as "fantastic" in this match - I'm guessing better than average emoting from Aries and Ray, or through Aries's bumping and selling?
Zatiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 10:10 AM   #1896 (permalink)
TAKIN' A MULLIGAN
 
Chismo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WHERE THE BUFFALO ROAM
Posts: 14,875
Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000Chismo 15501 - 16000
Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

And what's wrong with that? Smh...
__________________
http://www.filmdogsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/EdWood1.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanbrian View Post
TV shows are the best entertainment programmes like wrestling. My favourite TV show is RAW and SMACK DOWN. I specially like fight of Rey mysterio and Randy Ortan. It was very amazing fight with lots of stunt.
Chismo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 10:46 AM   #1897 (permalink)
Getting ignored by SCOTT STEINER
 
ywall2breakerj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Croatia
Posts: 639
ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500ywall2breakerj 1001 - 1500
Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRulz View Post
And what's wrong with that? Smh...
For some people, having a "story" isn't enough. Anyone with a brain can accomplish that- it's how you execute it that matters. Cena vs Punk from NOC followed the same pattern a million matches before did and it still felt new, fresh and great. The narrative of the match is nowhere near important as the actual content of it. You can build a great match arround a narrative, but a narrative itself doesn't make a match great. These days "that match is great because they told a great story" is often just an excuse for people not being able to come up with actual reasoning why they like something. Anyone can attach a story to a match. An average match without any notable transitions, counters, selling, bumping, matwork, spots, drama and all other ingredients needed to reach pro wrestling greatness doesn't become great all of a sudden becose of it's narrative, in my opinion, that is. It just comes down to how you view pro wrestling.
__________________

^CHAMPviaDQ™
Awesome sig by Tulf Yujiro GIF1Yujiro GIF2 The Holy Music
~2013 G1 Glimax Fantasy League Winner ~
ywall2breakerj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 10:58 AM   #1898 (permalink)
Acknowledged by SCOTT STEINER
 
Zatiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,071
Zatiel 501 - 1000Zatiel 501 - 1000Zatiel 501 - 1000Zatiel 501 - 1000Zatiel 501 - 1000Zatiel 501 - 1000Zatiel 501 - 1000
Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRulz View Post
And what's wrong with that? Smh...
I don't know if you were responding to me, Joe, but if so - it didn't make it a bad match, aside from where it was extremely predictable in the one thing it was doing and thus not successfully dramatic. It's a passable match with good performances. But that's all it was in both of my viewings. It's not even close to MOTYC-stuff, which is what this thread is about.

Last edited by Zatiel : 11-11-2012 at 11:01 AM.
Zatiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 04:15 PM   #1899 (permalink)
Déesse de L'extase
 
HayleySabin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Electric Chapel.
Posts: 30,510
HayleySabin is a rep whoreHayleySabin is a rep whoreHayleySabin is a rep whoreHayleySabin is a rep whoreHayleySabin is a rep whoreHayleySabin is a rep whoreHayleySabin is a rep whoreHayleySabin is a rep whoreHayleySabin is a rep whoreHayleySabin is a rep whoreHayleySabin is a rep whore
Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zatiel View Post
I'm tempted to be as dismissive as you are here and question your sentence comprehension, given that I explained why it was generic in that post. But that wouldn't help convince you, just as you didn't contribute to conversation with this post. Let me be clearer.

How is it generic? Because it followed a structure that is done in television matches in multiple companies every week. Sympathy-Guy shows fire, gets beat up by Mean-Guy, makes big comeback and wins. It did nothing new and was deathly predictable. They did not have original counters or study each other for cut-offs; they did not have any deviation from a standard match-story that is the hallmark of better matches. Of course this beating was just setting up Aries's comeback - if anything, the Park stuff was just a further excuse for it that made it more obvious.

Watch Turning Point tonight and you're guaranteed to see the same story with the same lack of nuance in at least one match; same on Raw, Impact and Smackdown. The difference is some of these matches won't have the quality of devoted personality, which is the only thing that set this apart.

You're welcome to explain what you saw as "fantastic" in this match - I'm guessing better than average emoting from Aries and Ray, or through Aries's bumping and selling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailsabin
Sacrifice 2012:

Bully Ray vs Austin Aries ~ ****1/2



Pure magic. This match is what I really love about Pro Wrestling. 100% story driven. Based all behind the depth of the characters and what they're about. I'm really a guy who prefers a match to be chalk full of story over a match filled with 10,001 moves or "pure wrestling" only. (I don't think that is such an obvious statement either. Some would prefer Bret Hart matches over this. I digress...) There is so much more substance. These guys didn't even empty out their arsenal, yet it was a complete match. That's talent. Bell rings and I swear to you, I had a smile on my face. It legit stayed there the entire match. How often does that happen? I'm serious. How often does a match, solely on build and video package alone, make you smile just in anticipation? I really can't remember. I think back at the first Chikara iPPV. Which is fitting since this match really reminded me why I loved Eddie Kingston vs Mike Quackenbush on that night. Very similar contests. Both matches were so wonderfully constructed that when you try and dissect it, you really start to notice there weren't a whole bunch of pointless phases. EVERYTHING mattered. You hear that Davey Richards? Or ROH in general. I'm gonna branch off into another point as to why I loved this match: Upon discussing the state of Indie wrestling atm, it's been said that all of the leaders are gone. Guys like Joe, Danielson, Nigel, & Punk to really lead and help some newer guys work matches like this. Aries was one of them too. And while he's VERY experienced, he worked vs a guy here in Bully who was able to elevate him to an even HIGHER level. That's phenomenal. I can use about 500 more adjectives to describe that, but phenomenal works. We need more of this all over the world of wrestling. Instead of often seen pointless bs by guys who can't do control phases or make them interesting. K, back to the match. Anyways...time to lose all semblance of decorum and say that this match fuckin ruled. It really did. Even when Bully kicks Aries off the top rope it DESTROYS him. Aries got up with massive bruises and cuts on his back. Bully = LEGIT.

Yep. I'm on board in calling this the TNA MOTY so far. And easily one of TNA's best overall matches.


My write up on the match and why I loved it.

Can't say I agree with the reasoning on why you thought it was "generic". So because there weren't a mega-ton of counters in the finishing stretch it hurt the match? I recall Bully countering Aries off the ropes while trying to rebuild his momentum and turn it into a pop-up Bully Cutter. That felt like an original counter to me. Don't see how it wasn't. What matches classify as GREAT in your book if impeccable selling and storytelling doesn't work for you? Or I'd like to hear a match this year that can make this match look decent by comparison. (seriously, I'm asking as I'm curious. unless you list Brock vs Cena.)

Not to mention you're tearing down the boundaries of wrestling 101. Face starts out hot, effective heel beatdown, subsequent face return to win. If it's done wonderfully, then I fail to see the fault in that. That's just me. Obviously we're on different wavelengths here.

oh and the only TV match this year I can think that relates to a match like this is Punk vs Henry from 4/2. Another match where it took an otherwise simple story and made a grand affair out of it.

I get your point for thinking it's a common match type. I simply thought these guys made it work to a REALLY strong level.
__________________
I'm biting the blade of your scissors.
I'm just a huge question mark hanging over the Mediterranean horizon.

Last edited by HayleySabin : 11-11-2012 at 04:18 PM.
HayleySabin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 06:42 PM   #1900 (permalink)
The Cruelest Animal
 
Bubz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Highway 61
Posts: 7,259
Bubz 12001 - 12500Bubz 12001 - 12500Bubz 12001 - 12500Bubz 12001 - 12500Bubz 12001 - 12500Bubz 12001 - 12500Bubz 12001 - 12500Bubz 12001 - 12500Bubz 12001 - 12500Bubz 12001 - 12500Bubz 12001 - 12500
Default Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

I agree, don't like it quite as much as you but I don't see how it's generic, especially by TNA's standards because they usually have a specific match structure they stick to and it's not normally what Aries and Bully did.
Bubz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios