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post #1071 of 2788 (permalink) Old 05-29-2012, 10:07 AM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

The match was fine. Cannot think of talking about it as a MOTYC tho. It should've been 20 mins max.

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post #1072 of 2788 (permalink) Old 05-29-2012, 12:06 PM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Originally Posted by erikstans07 View Post
Just watched Davey Richards vs. Harry Smith from WrestleReunion. That match was insanely good. I didn't want it to end. Why isn't Harry working for ROH? They could really use him.
Yeah, great match. But hell, the voice of the color commentary was really annoying. "Here's the MMA-style" lol the pissed me off
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post #1073 of 2788 (permalink) Old 05-29-2012, 02:15 PM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

He was a little annoying. Though, I liked the part where Excalibur called the Sharpshooter the Scorpion Deathlock and he said "there's a member of the Hart family in the ring and you call it the Scorpion Deathlock?!"
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post #1074 of 2788 (permalink) Old 05-29-2012, 03:45 PM
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With apologies to EmbassyForever

Davey Richards Vs Michael Elgin

Well, I'm glad the hatred for Davey has subsided and people can love him and his matches for the very reason they castigated them all but a few months ago. While the selling was somewhat there (delayed or nonsensically added, at times, with regards to Davey) it still had a lot of "WTF ARE YOU DOING?!" moments that detracted from the match so much so I almost rage-quitted twice. Can this propensity for Davey/So-And-So to breakout shin-strikes and knee combos to the face please just stop. It's completely unbelievable and detracts from the "realness" of the move that so many other wrestlers use in getting over their viciousness.

I also loved how Elgin attacked the concept of being the big-man Davey couldn't slay at the beginning of the match. It's not "firing up" (to whichever commentator said that), it's no-selling bullshit. Michael, can you please watch the matches of those infinitely more talented than you and note how they do it? At least add in a "shake off" of the damage inflicted against you, ffs. I'm actually glad only those in the know watch these matches because it would kill the believability of wrestling completely otherwise.

I'm not going to lie, though, I did like a good part of this match, too. Elgin delivered some nice moves and Davey's Belly-To-Back Suplex into Ankle Lock was a nice transition scene (and a lot more believable than the Superplex into Falcon Arrow people seemingly hate on). It had some good parts, too, and it did highlight what Davey (and Elgin) seemingly does very well - execute moves flawlessly. I think my thumb-sucking in trying to convey what I liked is becoming obvious here, I apologise, my feelings over the match are very much clouded by the negatives.

There just isn't enough goodness to justify a rating from me that lies congruent to (what seems to be) everyone else's opinion. Technically sound but lacking that extra dimension of decent psychology and believability (as well as being just another cookie-cutter RoH/Davey main event) I need in giving this a good rating. To borrow an analogy from 411mania, what this match is, then, is one that wholly epitomises the majority of the Indy scene today, and why wrestlers are shunted into and locked-up in FCW for so long after signing with WWE. There's no denying that they all know how to wrestle (and even wrestle well), but very few know how to just damn-well work.

Rating: 3.75

El Generico Vs Kevin Steen (SitS Night One)
Now this was better.

It took me a bit of time to get into it, but from, at least, halfway I was marking as I normally would for a match between these two. While it wasn't nearly as good as their previous encounters it still effectively did what it set out to do (not only in match quality but in turning Jacobs, too). No major gripes, apart from a flatter finish than I'd have hoped (considering I'm not going to follow the turn of events after this) but it kept Generico from outright losing and I'm not going to complain about that.

Rating: 4+

Last edited by Rah; 05-29-2012 at 04:55 PM. Reason: Add in Generico/Steen
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post #1075 of 2788 (permalink) Old 05-29-2012, 05:32 PM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

man I mostly agree with you but that first sentence is some bullshit.

I'm hungry so here's a food metaphor. I like hamburgers. I like them seasoned and flavored lots of different ways, but there are some ways I don't like. Sometimes I like cheese on them, sometimes I don't. I love onions on my hamburgers. A mediocre burger can be elevated to the level of a very good burger if it has onions on it. I don't like mayonnaise on my burgers. I'll eat it in combination with other flavors, but it has to be done very well for me to enjoy it, and more often than not I'll wish it wasn't there.

The hamburger that was Davey/Eddie at Final Battle was drowned in mayonnaise and had nothing else there to make me want to eat it. The hamburger that was Richards/Elgin had a little too much mayonnaise for my taste, but it also had a nice amount of jalapeños, a flavor I love in moderation and is hard to find done well, and it brought the fucking onions. The onions in that burger saved it for me. Too much mayo, but I loved it because of the onions, and it made me think for a moment that Ring of Burgers could still bring out a quality burger despite the new management, even when the cooks weren't guys I usually liked. That doesn't mean I like mayonnaise, but I still enjoyed that one burger that had mayonnaise on it.

I don't know if that made any sense but it was a lot of fun to write and I figure you'll get it because we liked pretty much the same things about the match.

Going to review all matches in burger metaphors now. I hope any FJM fans on here are proud of me.

Originally Posted by Maxx Hero View Post
This is the other wrestling section. It's still fake to us.
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post #1076 of 2788 (permalink) Old 05-29-2012, 08:31 PM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Goto vs Ishii - **** and I suspect a lot of you would view it even higher. Here is a MOTYC featuring Tomohiro Ishii, Cactus.

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post #1077 of 2788 (permalink) Old 05-29-2012, 10:45 PM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Ishii has 1 MOTYC a year so I can totally believe that.

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post #1078 of 2788 (permalink) Old 05-30-2012, 03:54 AM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Originally Posted by jawbreaker View Post
*hunger pang inducing levels of burger awesome*
Perhaps I was being too critical or perhaps your burger metaphor just made me hungry enough to want to rewatch it.

I really and totally get what you're saying, and I think it makes a lot more sense to me than most of the descriptions from others of the match as damn-near perfect. It was those people I was going for with that sentence. I can (sort of) understand the 4.25 or so ratings but having this as anything more is, imo, ludicrous (5-stars?).

Just some more mayo I forgot to add:
* Selling fear: selling isn't limited to after the move, but it plays an important precursor role, too. One cannot be grabbed into a fireman carry (where the opponent is setting up a devastating move) and lackadaisically let go of any facial expression Johnny Ace style. I noticed Punk did it in the OtL match, and Davey did it a few times in this. Elgin to a lesser extent, though.
* Contrived spots: If Elgin wasn't idiotically ignoring his height advantage on the ankle lock submissions (which killed any suspense for me, as he could have merely extended his gargantuan leg and made the rope-break at any point), he was the one initiating the momentum for them. I realise wrestling is a two-way street, but the choreography needs to be perfect. You cannot have someone that is Elgin's size randomly flipping over without exertion from Davey because the spot calls for an ankle lock. Make it believable, ffs. It wasn't simply limited to these moments (and I realise a lot of wrestling strays down this path, but it is of no excuse) but these do stand out as more WHY?! than the others.
* Random-ass Selling: I'm not sure how it's possible to ignore a barrage of offence only to sell a kick-out pin, but Davey sure as nuts did it. You can argue it was exhaustion that had him fall on his face and lie there motionless long enough for Elgin to get to his feet, but that plays incongruent to everything else, not only in the match but in his other matches, as well. Davey is truly a conditioned machine and doing so that early on in the match doesn't compute with his track-record (unless he's been eating antoniomare007's burgers) or for his energy levels in the rest of the match. I can understand why he did it, I just don't think he smartly did it. If he was going to lie there (out of frustration) at least add that emotion in to the mix, or if he was trying to sell exhaustion (however unlikely it was) make it believable and recoil into a corner showing some sign of life, at least. If he had done so, and added a calculating look (looking for his next plan of offence) I'd have much more enjoyed it. It wouldn't hurt my rating of the match if he didn't, but such little nuances are what I truly enjoy in wrestling - just going that extra mile. Just how I'd have liked a little touch to the selling of his back. An arm gesture (which he kept going at times) that had more continuity would have really made me applaud his work. Such little details, though, are understandably left to those on the upper echelons of talent so they're not a must-do but they are a must-do to have me think this match to be damn-well great/perfect.

I left only one or two examples in each for fear of a much too lengthy paragraph (I have studies to finish off, so perhaps my loathing for final exams are vicariously felt through some of the matches I've been watching the past two days) but I do hope my point is made. I can understand most people finding these points contrived, but it is these "contrived" and "asinine" things that prevent me from giving matches the full toot. If I'm too randomly critical, then so be it. I haven't had a match over 4.25 stars, yet (just varying differences in the rating bracket), so maybe I am.

Either way, I just don't understand how this match can be any amounts greater than Brock/Cena (of which I wasn't a fan, but I can see the sheer greatness in it, hence my rating) or Punk/Bryan. The latter being more obvious, considering they somewhat abandoned the E's style for a more technical, indy-circuit one. Sure, it didn't have the big-time impact RoH moves that Davey/Elgin did (for the HELL YEAH factor) but it did everything else better, imo. Just for a marker, I have that on the lower end of my 4.25 rating spectrum.

I see I re-gave Bryan/Punk's other TV-matches the same rating as Elgin/Davey. I'd love to say I'll rewatch this, but I've said that of many matches before I left for my studies. Many matches I know will still get a better rating than this. So, if I can get through those and the long list of matches I've missed then maybe, maybe I'll rewatch this.

Perhaps, like I said, I was too hard on this (due to displaced frustration) but I don't feel happy enough to give this anything more than the same rating I gave to Steen/Generico (4+).

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post #1079 of 2788 (permalink) Old 05-30-2012, 04:28 AM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

jawbreaker's metaphors make me hungry.
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post #1080 of 2788 (permalink) Old 05-30-2012, 09:07 AM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Yeah. Could do with a Burger now. STARVING AS FUCK! Why am I typing that on a wrestling forum? Like any of you care for my hunger .

Anyway, I agree with Rah about the faults with the Davey/Elgin match, but like jawbreaker said, it had enough stuff that was just balls awesome for me to enjoy the hell out of it. By no means a 5 star match or any higher than 4 1/4 imo, but definitely in the upper ranks of US matches this year, and in the upper ranks of ROH matches in like, two years.
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