ROH on SBG Discussion Thread - Page 77 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, ROH, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:57 AM   #761 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Going to remove all the ones that were as a result of someone winning something that guaranteed them a title shot:

1. Xavier vs Low Ki (Unscripted) - arguably devalued the belt, but in context makes a ton of sense as far as giving the promotion a legit heel.

3. Samoa Joe vs Tom Carter vs Matt Stryker vs Colt Cabana (Epic Encounter) - not a "real" title match, purely to establish Joe as a dominant fighting champion.

4. Samoa Joe vs Dan Maff (Wrestlerave 03) - got Maff over huge, wasn't a bad match and didn't hurt anyone

5. Samoa Joe vs BJ Whitmer (Wrath of the Racket) - got Whitmer over

7. Samoa Joe vs Trent Acid (Testing the Limit) - One.

8. Samoa Joe vs Rocky Romero (Gold) - eh, not great but not terrible, a filler defense before Punk's next shot

11. Bryan Danielson vs BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs (Throwdown) - Two.

12. Bryan Danielson vs Sonjay Dutt (Death Before Dishonor 4) - Three.

13. Homicide vs Jimmy Rave (5th Year Festival NYC) - Haven't seen this one. Maybe four.

14. Takeshi Morishima vs Homicide (5th Year Festival Philly)
15. Takeshi Morishima vs BJ Whitmer (5th Year Festival Dayton)
16. Takeshi Morishima vs Shingo (Good Times, Great Memories)
17. Takeshi Morishima vs BJ Whitmer (Respect Is Earned)
18. Takeshi Morishima vs Adam Pearce (Driven)
19. Takeshi Morishima vs Jimmy Rave (Driven)

Morishima's reign was all about establishing the belt by making Morishima look like a super monster who nobody could beat. All the squashes and bad matches were part of that angle, and it all built up to Nigel's title win.

Interestingly, you didn't name a single defense from Aries' first reign, even though he defended the belt the most frequently of any champion ever (except maybe Danielson).
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:16 AM   #762 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by jawbreaker View Post
Going to remove all the ones that were as a result of someone winning something that guaranteed them a title shot:

1. Xavier vs Low Ki (Unscripted) - arguably devalued the belt, but in context makes a ton of sense as far as giving the promotion a legit heel.

3. Samoa Joe vs Tom Carter vs Matt Stryker vs Colt Cabana (Epic Encounter) - not a "real" title match, purely to establish Joe as a dominant fighting champion.

4. Samoa Joe vs Dan Maff (Wrestlerave 03) - got Maff over huge, wasn't a bad match and didn't hurt anyone

5. Samoa Joe vs BJ Whitmer (Wrath of the Racket) - got Whitmer over

7. Samoa Joe vs Trent Acid (Testing the Limit) - One.

8. Samoa Joe vs Rocky Romero (Gold) - eh, not great but not terrible, a filler defense before Punk's next shot

11. Bryan Danielson vs BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs (Throwdown) - Two.

12. Bryan Danielson vs Sonjay Dutt (Death Before Dishonor 4) - Three.

13. Homicide vs Jimmy Rave (5th Year Festival NYC) - Haven't seen this one. Maybe four.

14. Takeshi Morishima vs Homicide (5th Year Festival Philly)
15. Takeshi Morishima vs BJ Whitmer (5th Year Festival Dayton)
16. Takeshi Morishima vs Shingo (Good Times, Great Memories)
17. Takeshi Morishima vs BJ Whitmer (Respect Is Earned)
18. Takeshi Morishima vs Adam Pearce (Driven)
19. Takeshi Morishima vs Jimmy Rave (Driven)

Morishima's reign was all about establishing the belt by making Morishima look like a super monster who nobody could beat. All the squashes and bad matches were part of that angle, and it all built up to Nigel's title win.

Interestingly, you didn't name a single defense from Aries' first reign, even though he defended the belt the most frequently of any champion ever (except maybe Danielson).
4 and 5 are just wrong. They should have been built to getting title shots, not just put there and hoped to get over and they clearly didn't get over to the point of Gabe wanting to do anything decent with either for awhile.

And Morishimas reign should never have defended the belt like he did. Instead of building him like a monster and then taking the title which would've made sense it was done in reverse which didn't. The only reason Morishima is let off is because he had good matches with Danielson & Nigel. He really shouldn't have beaten Homicide after losing to Joe.
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:56 AM   #763 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Danielson vs Rave and Homicide vs Rave are both really good title matches. Infact Danielson/Rave was one of the first ROH matches I saw and it got me interested in the product.

I loved Morishimas title run. I could watch him squash the likes of BJ and Pearce for ages. That's all that was needed imo to establish him as a monster that only the top top guys stood the slightest chance against so it was a big deal when they got their title shots.
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:21 AM   #764 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Maff also pinned Joe at the previous show. Whitmer's shot was their debut in Whitmer's hometown. Both of those were fine for the time and did more than Joe being in a random tag would have done.

Completely disagree regarding Morishima's reign. He was booked as the top guy in the company and had the belt almost immediately, rather than being booked stronger than the champ despite not having the title, which is what really devalues the belt (look at Richards and Black during Lynn, Aries, Strong, and Edwards' reigns). Maybe he should have beaten Joe in retrospect, but I think that was done just so that people would be more shocked when he beat Homicide.
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:31 AM   #765 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

What's wrong with Danielson/Sonjay Dutt? It was in the middle of the CZW feud and the show was the culmination of that feud. I liked the idea of putting Danielson in the ring with one of the more successful guys to come out of CZW.

I like the idea of a fighting champion as well. When you say will take on anyone at any time you should take on all sorts of people. And when the champion beats everyone he looks awesome and unstoppable. When someone finally takes the belt off him it looks like a big deal.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:58 PM   #766 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Shima's reign was the third best in ROH history (behind Nigel and Joe) and it was perfectly booked. You could do so much experiments with Shima as the champ, which they used to perfection. In the end, Nigel's win was huge because of the previous booking.

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I like the idea of a fighting champion as well. When you say will take on anyone at any time you should take on all sorts of people. And when the champion beats everyone he looks awesome and unstoppable. When someone finally takes the belt off him it looks like a big deal.
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:25 PM   #767 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Rave won a title shot by winning something btw. Think it was the 6 man tournament. The Morishima/SHINGO match was a title match because it was SHINGO's last match in the US (right?) and he said he'd leave if he couldn't win the belt.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:40 PM   #768 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

That was why he got the shot against Danielson, yeah. Not sure about Homicide (my late 06-early 07 ROH viewing is pretty scarce).
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:29 PM   #769 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Pretty sure Rave got the shot against Homicide just because of the little streak he had going at the end of '06, beating Nigel a couple of times, winning two matches at Final Battle, and also even upsetting Homicide before he won the belt at Black Friday Fallout.

Also, Romero had the shot against Dragon because of the Rottweilers winning Trios Tournament 2005 and getting to pick any match he wanted. I mean, it was on a stacked show with a feud ending cage main event, didn't go too long, and set up Danielson/Storm. Fine by me.
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:26 PM   #770 (permalink)
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Default Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

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Maff also pinned Joe at the previous show. Whitmer's shot was their debut in Whitmer's hometown. Both of those were fine for the time and did more than Joe being in a random tag would have done.

Completely disagree regarding Morishima's reign. He was booked as the top guy in the company and had the belt almost immediately, rather than being booked stronger than the champ despite not having the title, which is what really devalues the belt (look at Richards and Black during Lynn, Aries, Strong, and Edwards' reigns). Maybe he should have beaten Joe in retrospect, but I think that was done just so that people would be more shocked when he beat Homicide.
Morishima didn't even deserve the shot. He lost to Joe first up and then gets a shot? As well as never getting the win back on Joe before Joe leaves plus beating Homicide for the title in an awful match.

Winning the title without any build up or even a fucking win isn't good booking. Then having title squash matches made it look even worse. Also completely killed guys like Whitmer/Pearce etc.
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