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Scavo · 11-08-2011, 03:15 PM

I agree with JoeRulz here. Look at the beggining of the match Cactus, and listen to what commentators say. And then watch when all hell brokes loose. You'll have to get.

If it wasn't for the first 10ish minutes, that match would definitely be 5 stars.

**Cactus** · 11-08-2011, 03:26 PM

Yeah but 3/4*? Were the moves in that match not enough to like it a bit more? Some of the spots blew my mind.

SuperDuperSonic · 11-08-2011, 03:37 PM

I want McQueen's input.

**WOOLCOCK** · 11-08-2011, 03:45 PM

Its a nice spotfest with a bunch of amazingly pulled off spots (from memory I don't recall a single botch or at least a noticeable one) which always gets credit from me when they're pulled off perfectly given the degree of difficulty. Still its not close to a ***** match, I won't necessarily call it 'bad' since it was obviously set up to showcase DG to the ROH crowd and thus its objective was to wow them and show off the style to a whole new market, instead of a storytelling epic with great character work and selling. It did its job and was as good a match as possible given what they were going for, still it really lacked anything I look for in a match (character, selling, control, build, little subtle touches) so I'm never going to like it that much.

Still I don't 'hate' it since it made sense for them to have an exhibition showcase, if it had been say a culmination of an angle taking place in ROH between the teams then I'd be shitting on it for needing more depth and emotion. As it is whilst I certainly wouldn't rank it a great or even good match, I can't fault it for lacking what I love in a match since it only had one primary objective which was to demonstrate the ability and uniqueness of Dragon Gate, and the crowd reaction proved they got that objective over.

But yeah as a comparison I'd call Miz vs Lawler Elimination Chamber a better match.

**Cactus** · 11-08-2011, 03:53 PM

Miz vs Lawler? I'm not sure if that's an insult or a compliment. That match gets the most mixed reaction ever. I like it quite a bit (***1/4 - ***1/2), but others not so much. Caida, thoughts?

**WOOLCOCK** · 11-08-2011, 03:59 PM

I'd say around ***1/2 is fair, probably had it closer to ***3/4 live just because I'm a massive Lawler mark and they structured a really good match that built to some good nearfalls and spots that made it look like Lawler could win, Miz being thrown into Cole and the Riley interference back-firing etc. Thought it could have done with the patented Lawler comeback since I think Miz's character is tailor made to bump like a maniac for Lawler's superman punches, the lack of that comeback and a more drawn out finishing stretch stops it from going into 'fucking awesome' but I was satisfied with everything else and thought they did as well as possible trying to make the Lawler angle believeable to the audience as well as working within his obvious physical limitations for a 60 year old man.

I wouldn't really see how Lawler/Miz being a better match to me is a criticism, the DG tag was set up entirely differently so it would obviously lack the emotion, character and story that made Lawler/Miz so strong but yeah Lawler/Miz had what I enjoy in my wrestling these days to the point where I'd comfortably call it the better match. It could be a moot point though since both matches were deliberately structured to be polar opposites: since they're objectives and what the match was about were obviously stark contrasts.

antoniomare007 · 11-08-2011, 04:05 PM

It's classic Lawler so of course Caida loves that match

.

It wasn't as good as Flair vs Edge but it was still awesome. It's almost the complete opposite to DF vs BG at Supercard of Honor though. I don't see much of a point of comparing them unless you want to make clear what kind of wrestling you like the most.

Violent By Design · 11-08-2011, 04:16 PM

Do-Fixer vs Blood Generation is pretty exciting. I'm a fan of the match.

I don't really get how it "super exposes" the business though lol.

bigbuxxx · 11-08-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRulz

That match is horrible, like SUPER business-exposing horrible. 3/4*, and I'm not even kidding.

Btw, I have a question about DG tags? Commentators keep saying that tags are not needed, but wrestlers do it anyway. Then in finishing stretch there is no tags. Mind fucking...

I've asked this in the DG thread but nobody answers

. Anyhow, I'd give that match 5*. I found it entertaining and engaging for the full length of the bout and the atmosphere for the last 5 or so minutes when everybody was standing up was incredible and special.

SuperDuperSonic · 11-08-2011, 04:41 PM

I recall showing it to my dad during WM23 weekend. Then when we watched WM23, he said nothing could live up to that match until Batista vs. Taker came on. (In hindsight though, the MITB was tremendous and just as great as almost any DG 6 Man I've ever seen.)