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Old 07-30-2011, 07:54 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

I just finished the 1993 tag Segunda. Bloody amazing. This now honestly becomes my second favorite match ever after the 95 tag. It really adds to the story alot of the 95 tag and makes that one seem better like you said, so to anybody planning on watching these I reccomend you definitely watch this one first.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:04 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

Glad to hear, Kawada's selling of the leg is perhaps the best bit of limb selling I've ever seen, Kobashi in the 1995 tag is about as good a contender as I can think of off the top of my head.

Kawada's supreme selling of being knocked out and weakened throughout his matches will become more evident the more you watch of him, guy was an incredibly gifted seller who made even the stiffest elbow/kick look even more ungodly stiff.

There's many more important matches for you to get around to whenever you have time, I recall you enjoying Jumbo vs Misawa but I can't recall if you saw the first or second match. After the rematch they begin the epic 6 man tags starting on 19/10/1990 and going through 1991 and into 1992. A lot are on Youtube and in Seabs's megapost, if by any chance the links are down in seabs's megapost then I should have some additional links for you.

It will be lucha for you after you become an AJPW addict btw
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:15 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

Yeah, Kawadas selling was easily the best i've ever seen, he sold the leg like death from the very first strike thrown at it. The guy is such a badass. Oh, and Misawa has THE best rolling elbow EVER! Sorry Hero.

I love both of the Misawa/Jumbo matches, but the second one is my personal favorite, even if the first was the more historically important of the two. Jumbo going batshit crazy on Misawas face with strikes was scary as hell.

Which would you say is the best Misawa vs Kobashi match? I've seen the 97 match and it was rather great, and I saw the 99 one a while ago but can't really remember much from it.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:25 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

Personally I consider 20/1/1997 to be their best. I recall really enjoying 31/10/1998 (its October 1998 but I can't recall if its the 31st) and one 1999 match. Never really enjoyed the 2003 match as much as others, think it suffered a tad from the style becoming more 'headrops for the sake of headrops' and became a little more spotty than in the mid 90s where the finisher kick outs were big deals because they utilised their moveset and protected it to keep reactions strong.

Part of what I love about mid 90s Japan is you have Kawada powerbombing Misawa (and Kawada has an infamous powerbomb), numerous things run through my head :

Misawa's kicking out of this, he's Misawa for fuck sake.
Oh shit its Kawada's powerbomb and that's good enough to beat anyone, Misawa included.

There's a real sense of Misawa being able to kick out of his opponent's best stuff and not diminish its credibility because he's MISAWA, whilst at the same time he mixes up his finishers so that he can give a guy the rub by having him kick out of his older finishers. I recall he once used an elbow and then a bridging half nelson suplex to pin Kobashi, then in another match he hadn't weakened Kobashi enough so when he used the same briding suplex Kobashi could kick out but still leave you thinking the move was still credible if Kobashi was weaker. Stuff like that always makes me appreciate the near falls better than in the indies where they don't take the time to protect their best finishers and don't have the same name value in being able to kick out of bigger stuff because the audience treats them as Gods.

I too prefer the second Jumbo vs Misawa match. Jumbo is terrific as the old dog realising he has to utilise every bag of tricks in the arsenal to maintain his dominance as the man in the company.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:38 PM   #155 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

you need to watch Kawada vs Misawa Champions Carnival 95' match (not great, but Misawa's orbital bone get broken by Kawada in the firsts 2 minutes iirc) and then the Final between Misawa and Taue, shit's beautiful.

To me, after 1/20/97, All Japan began declining a little bit (i mean, it was still amazing, but not consistent greatness as before) and focusing more on headrops. Vader/Misawa being the exception IMO.

Quote:
He used to be Tiger Mask II, then after one particular match where the heels pissed him off he motioned to Kawada to unmask him, he then promptly through the mask at them and the reaction was immense. From there Baba became aware Jumbo was slowing down in health and that Misawa was to become the new star.
actually, Baba had to push a new guy at that time because Tenryu left All Japan for SWS. Misawa was the chosen one but Baba didn't think he was gonna be THAT over once he took his mask off. In fact the plan was for Jumbo to win their first encounter but people were chanting Misawa's name even before the show started, and his merch was selling like crazy so Baba decided to change the outcome of the match at the last minute.

Jumbo suggested to have a non-finish but Baba just send him a message saying "No".
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:40 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

I feel the exact same way about their 2003 match. It just seemed like a finisher fest for about 20 minutes of it, wasn't a fan of it at all really. Some spots were sick as hell though like the tiger suplex off the stage. Why the fuck anybody would take a bump like that is beyond me, Kobashi seems to have always taken the sickest bumps though, crazy bastard lol.

Just looking through Seabs post of all AJPW won 5* matches, I noticed the second Misawa/Jumbo match isn't there, pretty surprising considering it is just as good as most of the other matches on there.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:44 PM   #157 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniomare007 View Post
you need to watch Kawada vs Misawa Champions Carnival match (not great, but Misawa's orbital bone get broken by Kawada in the firsts 2 minutes iirc) and then the Final between Misawa and Taue, shit's beautiful.


actually, Baba had to push a new guy at that time because Tenryu left All Japan for SWS. Misawa was the chosen one but Baba didn't think he was gonna be THAT over once he took his mask off. In fact the plan was for Jumbo to win their first encounter but people were chanting Misawa's name even before the show started, and his merch was selling like crazy so Baba decided to change the outcome of the match at the last minute.

Jumbo suggested to have a non-finish but Baba just send him a message saying "No".
Cheers for the correction, I thought after posting there may be more to the story than the basic outline I listed but couldn't recall enough specifics. I do recall the story though of Baba walking round the building and sensing the crowd wanted the big upset and couldn't pass up such an opportunity. Man was a hell of a booker.

Also which Champions Carnival are you referring to? Mind has gone blank after all this AJPW talk lol, too many dates and tournaments to recall at 1.45am

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Old 07-30-2011, 08:46 PM   #158 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniomare007 View Post
you need to watch Kawada vs Misawa Champions Carnival match (not great, but Misawa's orbital bone get broken by Kawada in the firsts 2 minutes iirc) and then the Final between Misawa and Taue, shit's beautiful.

To me, after 1/20/97, All Japan began declining a little bit (i mean, it was still amazing, but not consistent greatness as before) and focusing more on headrops. Vader/Misawa being the exception IMO.



actually, Baba had to push a new guy at that time because Tenryu left All Japan for SWS. Misawa was the chosen one but Baba didn't think he was gonna be THAT over once he took his mask off. In fact the plan was for Jumbo to win their first encounter but people were chanting Misawa's name even before the show started, and his merch was selling like crazy so Baba decided to change the outcome of the match at the last minute.

Jumbo suggested to have a non-finish but Baba just send him a message saying "No".
Cheers for the reccomendation, what year is that from?
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:55 PM   #159 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

oops, I'm talking about the 1995 CC.

That and the Vader match at the Baba Memorial Show are the perfect definition of Misawa's character and what made him so loved by the fans as this comeback God.
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:28 PM   #160 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

HBK vs. HHH - 3 Stages of hell
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