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Old 07-13-2012, 07:37 PM   #1201 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

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Originally Posted by Segunda Caida View Post


EDIT: As for Austin/Angle, I think its the best match the company put on in 2001, not sure if I'd call it the #1 match in company history but then again I'd have to rewatch the absolute best stuff to try and get a clearer picture. On last watch (for the 00-09 MOTD poll) I came out of it probably the same as I did before, Austin's heel performance was still as captivating and complex as I remembered, Angle was again a fiery and resilient babyface and I thought they timed the Stunners well within the context of the match. They definitely served a purpose in accentuating Austin's psychotic breakdown which led to the referee abuse, and furthered the story going in that Angle had him frightened. Finish was still as gloriously dickish as I recalled, Nick Patrick was really underrated in that elitist prick heel role: post match Ankle Lock might be the most I've ever enjoyed the move.

I pretty much agree with all of that (Austin/Angle), but I just get the feeling 90% of other people are seeing a transcendental great match where I'm just seeing a great one. And it's not like these are people with different tastes to me, either. I watched the Angle/Michaels PPV matches recently and thought neither was even a three star match, but the people who like that are often people who like A LOT of stuff I don't. Austin/Angle gets love from almost everyone no matter what they're into. Evil Heel Who Works for an Evil Group Murdering and Cheating a Hero Babyface is pretty much my favourite wrestling formula so I can only think I'm the one missing something.

I should just shut the FUCK up and watch the match today.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:03 PM   #1202 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

I'm agreeing with Yeah1993 here, I thought Austin/Angle was great, and I agree with everything Segunda said about it, but there was just something missing for me to put it at that ***** level like most people do. I've seen it once like a year ago though so like I said, should probably watch it at some point this week.

Last I watched it, I actualy enjoyed Austin/Benoit from RAW more. My favourite tv match WWF/E have ever done. Even more so than the SD match and the RAW tag with Hunter and Jericho.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:41 PM   #1203 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

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Austin/Angle is a dramatically epic WWF Title match. Angle and Austin gave two of the strongest babyface and heel performances I've seen in one match. It would probably be 5 stars for me if Angle had made Austin tap. Austin submitting to the Ankle lock would just would have capped it off perfectly for me. However, the DQ finish they had was great too and how it was played made sense.
i thought the finish made it better. also having austin tap gets rid of the dramatic hometown win the next month for Kurt.

Quote:
Last I watched it, I actualy enjoyed Austin/Benoit from RAW more. My favourite tv match WWF/E have ever done. Even more so than the SD match and the RAW tag with Hunter and Jericho.
if we're talking favorites and not best, my favorite has gotta be bret vs austin in a streetfight where austin just fucks him up with a chair and bret breaks his ankle or foot by jumping off the ropes. best tv match i think would be the tag you mentioned and tlc 3.

Last edited by bigbuxxx : 07-13-2012 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:16 AM   #1204 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

Angle/Austin is a five star match for me, it was magnificent. And that's how you do a screwy finish.
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:18 AM   #1205 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

Just to clarify, I wouldn't call it a ***** match, its weird in that again I doubt they could have done anything better in that match, so in some ways its 'perfect', but I think at this point there has to be some 'feeling' within me when watching a match that would get me to give it the full 5. Its an incredible match without doubt, but its just lacking that intangible factor that certain matches have that I can't call less than *****.

As for why people may not see it as great as others, well a lot of it will just come down to the performances. Massive Austin fans will probably be so caught up in the character work and storytelling through his facial expressions and actions that the match becomes 'amazing', that's definitely to me the primary reason why I adore it so much, so if you think he was great but aren't caught up completely and calling it an all time great performance then I can see why it becomes a great match, but not a GREAT match.

That being said I don't think you necessarily have to keep watching it in order to eventually become as big a fan of it as others (not incinuating BUBZ or someone would do that), part of what makes discussion great is the varying opinions on matches. For example Yeah1993 had me watch Santo/Hijo Del Perro 2004 in CMLL and the praise he was giving it I was expecting a whole new Santo match to fall in love with....but aside from a couple of sequences and moments I was honestly left quite flat. How much of that is down to the actual match, or the hindsight of having seen many bloody Santo brawls since I discovered him and the match just not replicating those matches is hard to say, but I'd definitely say it wasn't the match I was expecting/hoping, which is a tad surprising since its not often me and Yeah1993 have largely dis-similar thoughts on a match (aside from HBK/Taker WM 26 ya bastard ), but hey its always bound to happen eventually.
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:40 AM   #1206 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

I'm a MASSIVE Austin fan. And I promise my thoughts on this match have nothing to do with my thoughts on Angle.

Santo/Perro- The link I gave; I'm pretty it isn't the full match. I can see two parts with the first going 6 minutes and the second going 9. The whole match on my DVD is like 27 minutes. My bad. I'll just rip this. I've already ripped Santo/Cerebro x2, Navarro/Engendro and Navarro/Dandy and will start uploading to iFile in a couple of days. I think my other link died because I accidentally had like three matches/90 minutes in the one file.

And HBK/Taker is good. But ONLY good. But come to think of it that could fall under the I Didn't Get It category too. Only watched it once.
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:54 AM   #1207 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

I was going to say it did seem short, that would be awesome since it kicked into another gear near the end of the second link (Santo dive and them fighting in the seats).

I think I love HBK/Taker mainly for the callback spots, Taker's selling, the story playing off of Flair/Michaels and the way they seemed to work towards a more character/story driven match whereas the WM 25 match was more of a sprint/clash of titans deal. I can see why some might find it too melodramatic/a forced epic, but I think they nailed the perfect balance between old school work and modern WWE DRAMA/STORYTELLING in a much better way than either Taker/HHH match which just felt too cheesy and forced. Its not necessarily a match I'm shocked is divisive, but I do think there's a lot to appreciate about it.
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:06 AM   #1208 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

The dive is a count-out finish, but it's an awesome count-out finish since they just HATE each other the whole match and just fuck each other up. I'd say the whole thing is practically in that I Fucking Loathe You gear. I remember a suplex into the crowd where they almost kicked a dude in the head (was it that match? IDK). So yeah, I think the finish is in that link, but there's a chunk of the match missing.

WM26- I did think Taker was great in it.
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:49 AM   #1209 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

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Just to clarify, I wouldn't call it a ***** match, its weird in that again I doubt they could have done anything better in that match, so in some ways its 'perfect', but I think at this point there has to be some 'feeling' within me when watching a match that would get me to give it the full 5. Its an incredible match without doubt, but its just lacking that intangible factor that certain matches have that I can't call less than *****.
I agree with this 100% -- not just in terms of Austin/Angle, but in general. There are a lot of matches that don't quite get a ***** rating from me whose only real flaw is that they just don't "feel" like ***** matches.
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:25 AM   #1210 (permalink)
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Default Re: Your 5 Star Match Lists

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The dive is a count-out finish, but it's an awesome count-out finish since they just HATE each other the whole match and just fuck each other up. I'd say the whole thing is practically in that I Fucking Loathe You gear. I remember a suplex into the crowd where they almost kicked a dude in the head (was it that match? IDK). So yeah, I think the finish is in that link, but there's a chunk of the match missing.

WM26- I did think Taker was great in it.
That would make sense then, I never actually noticed any obvious break between the two links, but here's hoping the missing 10-12 mins make me appreciate the match more. I did get a strong sense of hate between both men, but I think part of my apathy towards the match stemmed from El Hijo Perro, I dunno the guy just didn't come across as a true rudo: he didn't have those awesome brawling tendencies to me that you expect out of a Lucha brawl. Maybe its unfair to expect MS-1/Sangre Chicana levels of violence out of him, but he just seemed to be more like a US guy in a Lucha environment rather than a true Lucha brawler, too many stomps and tame looking punches for my liking. I did find Santo super though, but whilst watching the match it felt more like him trying to hopelessly recreate his 80s/90s epics with a more limited/less talented opponent.
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