Originally Posted by Shirley Crabtree III
Triple H vs. Cactus Jack from Royal Rumble 2000 was twice as good as this match and, arguably, a five star match.
This is nothing to do with an anti-HHH bias. I was a big fan of him when he was in his prime. I'm just not allowing Vince McMahon to kid me into thinking that yet another HHH-Taker match is hugely historically significant event. This was a lazy replacement for what could have been Taker vs. Sting - a match that truly would have meant something.
I'm pretty sure Kane tombstoned Undertaker at least as recently as within the past nine months or so. I'm sure others have done it too, I was just using Kane as the example, since that was enough to prove that particular point wrong.
I didn't say that the spot wasn't a really good near fall. In fact, I said the opposite in a previous post. I'm just saying that someone using someone else's finisher doesn't automatically make a match a mindblowing, industry-changing, 5* match. It's something that often happens in longer matches. Eddie Edwards and Christopher Daniels did the same thing recently, in a better match. Nigel McGuinness used Bryan Danielson's shit in matches that didn't even involve Bryan Danielson.
Nah, they just had a different match structure to your average match. IIRC the first one started out with finishers and then went around the houses to get back to finishers again. Regardless, probably neither of those were really 5* matches. They were just great matches that stood out amongst the sea of sewage that WWE have been serving up for a number of years now.
I find it annoying that some people were giving matches from this year's EC PPV close to five stars. The same thing happens with every show. It's just a joke and shows a complete lack of perspective.
I don't recall Kane tomb stoning Undertaker. Not that it's a big deal whether he was tombstoned or not.
You're posting in a smark thread where people here watch a bunch of different wrestling products. Yes, we all know that finisher fest are not exclusive to WM. But what you're ignoring is the WWE perspective. Mcguiness using Bryan Danielson's finishers is not nearly as dramatic as HHH tombstoning Undertaker at WM (especially when he had beaten down Undertaker so badly). The build to the tombstone I think is what made it so great as well as the stage it was presented on.
Back to my point, we see guys kicking out of finishers very often in indie wrestling. It's just not the same type of spectacle as it is in the WWE. Wrestling promotions differ in plot (obviously), so what barring does it have if we see that stuff in ROH? Moves are booked much more differently in that company.
I actually hate matches where guys kick out of finishers. I hate it in the WWE too. And during the HHH vs Undertaker match I was kinda like "this is kinda lame, these spots are predictable". But like a lot of great matches, the middle portion was not good but the start and finish were excellent. So I give this match its due, because I felt a lot of emotion from it. The perfect match? Can't say I've seen someone say that. A great one? I'd say so, much better than any reasonable expectations that is for sure.