The 2011 MOTYC Thread - Page 322 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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post #3211 of 3228 (permalink) Old 02-13-2012, 12:40 PM
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Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

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Originally Posted by Segunda Caida View Post
Nervosa is correct, I recall that long debate between you two but the one I was on about started when I think Legend said something along the lines of 'Davey hate is just that time of the month'. It prompted myself and others to cite what about Davey we didn't particularly like, but between Crabtree and a few others we somehow ended up on people arguing we thought Kevin Nash was a better worker or something crazy like that.
I started a debate? Excellent. This Devil's Advocate thing is nifty.

I don't care if people don't like Davey. Uh ... I don't like Davey.

What I have a problem with is polemicism. And it's rife here.
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post #3212 of 3228 (permalink) Old 02-13-2012, 01:59 PM
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Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

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Originally Posted by Nervosa View Post
You mean that 10 page argument where you made things up that didn't happen in order to create story for a match where both competitors clearly never bothered? Yeah, I remember that one.
Made up things implied they weren't in the match. I acknowledged your points and proved WHY they were not what you thought they were where you went with the whole "I'm right you're wrong". I very much remember that argument.
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But that is not the conversation he is talking about. That was entirely different. Far after I stopped posting here.
Which was silly to quit posting somewhere that doesn't share your opinion a 100% of the time.



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I don't think you really understand what Jaws is saying. He isn't saying people don't have a right to there opinions. all of you have a right to it. We just have a right to

1. Ask for more
2. Ask for reasonable support
3. Call people stupid when condition #2 isn't met. Hopefully using ridicule.
It isn't wrong to ask people to back up their opinion at all. In fact, that is why I have no issue with Bubz. He likes stuff that I don't like and vice versa/we both give reasons. However, Jawbreakers called him a retard for having his own opinion before ANY of those conditions were meant. That is the problem I have with his post. Number 3 rule is unnecessary or ridiculous as it is as it inspires forcing what you think on others as if it was a fact instead of both parties agreeing on a general conscious. Number 3 is actually fucking retarded and something that will get you nowhere in actual life.

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I recall that long debate between you two but the one I was on about started when I think Legend said something along the lines of 'Davey hate is just that time of the month'. It prompted myself and others to cite what about Davey we didn't particularly like, but between Crabtree and a few others we somehow ended up on people arguing we thought Kevin Nash was a better worker or something crazy like that.
I recall some of that and I still agree that Richards hate was a little time of the month thing especially when he was actually fantastic during the time(He's awful in America now though). It has happened to former champions like Nigel, Morishima, and Black to name some notable guys. It is something that just happens to some ROH Wrestlers over time and I(As well apparently others) have noticed it as well. I still think the Briscoes were the undisputed MVPs of 2007.


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And no, Strong/Edwards wasn't a bad match. It had lots of the characteristics of bad matches (predictability, overbooking, gimmicky stipulations), but what it did well, it did well enough that it wasn't a bad match overall.
Congratulations. You have made a opinion, not a fact. I thought the match was garbage but you can feel free to think that way.

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Fucking music , dancing , and 360 piledrivers , Maryse sex scene , 450s through tables , shoot star press drop kicks , Rock comes back , Austin comes back

It better be epic
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post #3213 of 3228 (permalink) Old 02-14-2012, 11:46 PM
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Talking Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

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Originally Posted by Caponex75 View Post
Made up things implied they weren't in the match. I acknowledged your points and proved WHY they were not what you thought they were where you went with the whole "I'm right you're wrong". I very much remember that argument.
O yeah, like the Arm work in Taker/Trips that never even played into the story of the match and that no one even said happened except you? what about when you just copied and pasted Kobashi and Misawa, even thought those two actually told stories while Trips and Taker just traded spots? You didn't even bother defending all the abuse you took for that one after a while.

But as for this match, what about that thing you called a workover even though it was like 30 seconds and was broken up by Eddie doing all his normal moves as if nothing had happened? Are you still claiming that that was supposed to be a workover? What about saying it 'didn't matter,' that they actually forgot which limbs they were working over. If that's not an unsupported 'I'm right, you're wrong.' I don't know what is. Or you claiming the 'brother' storyline when I gave you legitimate examples of the proper way to tell that story (Briscoe/Briscoe), illustrating how much your match fell short by comparison? Showing you that the pre-match hype videos and stories were presenting the match as WAY more about Eddie proving himself than your completely made up brother stuff?

See, I actually do use facts and examples. I actually gave a huge list objections that anyone claiming the match was five stars would have to contend with. You dealt with the ones that suited you and ignored the majority of them. That's not acknowledging my points: that's you just saying "I'm right, you're wrong" without defense.

You, on the other hand, just make things up, (things that NO ONE seems to think exist except you) in order to help your points.

Quote:
It isn't wrong to ask people to back up their opinion at all. In fact, that is why I have no issue with Bubz. He likes stuff that I don't like and vice versa/we both give reasons. However, Jawbreakers called him a retard for having his own opinion before ANY of those conditions were meant. That is the problem I have with his post. Number 3 rule is unnecessary or ridiculous as it is as it inspires forcing what you think on others as if it was a fact instead of both parties agreeing on a general conscious. Number 3 is actually fucking retarded and something that will get you nowhere in actual life.
Wait so, by ridiculing an unsupported opinion, we are 'forcing what we think on others?' You act like we are torturing people until they obey the state. This isn't persecution, buddy, its ridicule. On a freaking message board.

If someone is going to share an opinion around here, they know the risk they are taking, and that risk is this: your opinion, if undefended, can be openly tested through ridicule by anyone who reads it. That's message Board 101. If they are seriously posting on a message board without being prepared for that, then they get what they deserve. It will be the sooner they learn that lesson, for sure.

You're right, rule 3 'gets you nowhere in life,' unless you want people to actually believe you when you argue your position on something. It will get you nowhere unless you want to learn to hold and defend arguments in way that doesn't make you a laughing stock. Rule 3 is meaningless, as long as you're ok with just giving up every time someone disagrees with you because you're either too unintelligent to defend a contrary opinion or too embarrassed to try.

O yeah, that will get you nowhere. Look where you ended up: making up stories that aren't there and skipping over objections that don't suit you.



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post #3214 of 3228 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 05:46 AM
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Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

Nervosa, do you still have that huge list of objections you refered to? I thought Richards/Edwards was a 5 star match, so I'd like to see that list, not a big deal if you don't have it anymore though lol.


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post #3215 of 3228 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 06:46 AM
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Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

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Originally Posted by The Corre View Post
Nervosa, do you still have that huge list of objections you refered to? I thought Richards/Edwards was a 5 star match, so I'd like to see that list, not a big deal if you don't have it anymore though lol.
No problem at all.

1. Eddie never gets worked over, constantly, without quickly hitting some kind of offense. This diminishes not only Davey’s workover, but Eddie’s comeback, which is less impressive as a result of him never really seeming like he was in peril. In also destroys any semblance of pacing. This problem also leads to…
2. As in all Eddie matches, no workoever means no comeback, which is so very important in the match. Anyone notice that the crowd rarely even stood up during this match, and was not only seated but QUIET near the end? When a match is paced like this, they can’t tell WHICH moment is the big one, so they sit down through it all. That is a problem.
3. Davey forgetting not once but TWICE which limb he is working
4. The guys DO get caught talking to each other a LOT here. Like…..every time they are both lying down. It’s really obvious and really horrible: so bad I don’t think there is a camera angle in the building that could hide it.
5. Richards crawling around before Eddie after TAKING the 2k1 to the apron.
6. Sinclair beginning to count out Richards after the double stomp…and then stopping for no discernable reason.
7. The entire Dragon screw portion discussed above. First, why was Davey able to get control out of nowhere after getting worked with 2 1/2 HUGE moves? Why would Eddie, desperate for a win, beg Davey to Dragon screw him? In that amount of time, a ‘desperate’ Eddie, in control only seconds before, could have hit a counter.
8. Richards regaining control at strange times without reversals: first for the dragon screw in the ropes, and then near the end with the saito suplex, the latter of which ended up being his ‘big comeback,’ but had no actual reason behind it.
9. Eddie’s sloppy rana, DISGRACEFUL cloverleaf, and generally poor sit-down pin
10. Overall pacing is generally bad, as discussed previously by Jaws and Antonio above. I will throw in that I think if they rectify problems 1 and 2, the pacing would end up being just fine, but that is just me. A little workover section and comeback in any Edwards match could have gone a long, long way.


Also, I should note, that most of these are better explained in detail in my full review on page 112 in this thread.



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post #3216 of 3228 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 07:50 AM
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Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread



MASADA & Ryuji Ito vs Yuko Miyamoto & Isami Kodaka - BJW 23.10.2011

This was one hell of a deathmatch, where they pulled out all the stops, then put gimmicks on the stops and pulled them out also.

In two corners of the ring there are boxes of wacky weapons ranging from a thumbtack fry pan, to razor slippers, to a nail/spiked hair brush, not to mention some of the other things that I am still puzzled about. Then there are the "corner men" handing out the tacks, kenzans and some other horrible natural murder balls.

All this is shared with some of the wildest deathmatch guys out there, and they don't hold back.

For about 25 minutes these guys (and their various weapons of destruction) go to war in a bloody, drama filled battle that has you physically reacting as you watch. Especially when MASADA gets the skewers out.

Tons of great scenes, super violent, action packed & novelty filled.

****1/2

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post #3217 of 3228 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 08:11 AM
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Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

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Originally Posted by TelkEvolon View Post
MASADA & Ryuji Ito vs Yuko Miyamoto & Isami Kodaka - BJW 23.10.2011

This was one hell of a deathmatch, where they pulled out all the stops, then put gimmicks on the stops and pulled them out also.

In two corners of the ring there are boxes of wacky weapons ranging from a thumbtack fry pan, to razor slippers, to a nail/spiked hair brush, not to mention some of the other things that I am still puzzled about. Then there are the "corner men" handing out the tacks, kenzans and some other horrible natural murder balls.

All this is shared with some of the wildest deathmatch guys out there, and they don't hold back.

For about 25 minutes these guys (and their various weapons of destruction) go to war in a bloody, drama filled battle that has you physically reacting as you watch. Especially when MASADA gets the skewers out.

Tons of great scenes, super violent, action packed & novelty filled.

****1/2
Sounds like an awesome match. Definitely gonna watch that sometime today or tomorrow, thanks for the YT link.
I'm not really familair with Kodaka, but I'm a big fan of MASADA, Ito and Miyamoto. I recently got CZW's Down With The Sickness 2011, it has the no rope barbed wire match between Ito and MASADA for the BJW Deathmatch/CZW UVU championships. So it'll be fun to see these 2 team up instead of fight each other.


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post #3218 of 3228 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 08:53 AM
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Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

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Originally Posted by The Corre View Post
Sounds like an awesome match. Definitely gonna watch that sometime today or tomorrow, thanks for the YT link.
I'm not really familair with Kodaka, but I'm a big fan of MASADA, Ito and Miyamoto. I recently got CZW's Down With The Sickness 2011, it has the no rope barbed wire match between Ito and MASADA for the BJW Deathmatch/CZW UVU championships. So it'll be fun to see these 2 team up instead of fight each other.
Kodaka is probably one of my fabvorite to watch, he kinda reminds me of El Generico (of all people), real skinny, real fast and can take a hell of a beating and come back on fire.

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post #3219 of 3228 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 03:32 PM
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Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

Just watched Super Dragon/Kevin Steen vs Young Bucks from PWG Fear. Awesome match, just the way I like it. Stiff, pretty fast paced, great moves. Definitely worth ****/ ****1/2 imo.


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post #3220 of 3228 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 07:54 PM
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Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

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Originally Posted by The Corre View Post
Just watched Super Dragon/Kevin Steen vs Young Bucks from PWG Fear. Awesome match, just the way I like it. Stiff, pretty fast paced, great moves. Definitely worth ****/ ****1/2 imo.
How's Super Dragon working these days? I haven't ever really been a fan of his even when he was 100% healthy, and he has been so out of shape the past 5 years or so that I figured he would be awful when he came back. All I have heard is good things though.



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