The 2011 MOTYC Thread - Page 101 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 06-11-2011, 07:19 PM   #1001 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

I think you and I are the only ones to go **** for LDRS vs. O'Reilly + Cole.

I thought it was exciting, if sloppy and contrived. Going to watch Nagata/Tanahashi and the PWG main-event and I should be all caught up (with the exception of DGUSA).
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1. Ring of Honor Championship: Eddie Edwards (c) vs. Davey Richards (Best in the World iPPV, June 26th, *****)
2. Non-Title: Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin (c) vs. Davey Richards & Eddie Edwards (Honor Takes Center Stage Part 2 iPPV, April 2nd, ****1/2)
3. All Asia Tag Team Championships: Seiya Sanada & Manabu Soya (c) vs. Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi (AJPW, March 21st, ****1/2)
4. Pure Rules: Davey Richards vs. Christopher Daniels (Manhattan Mayhem IV, March 19th, ****1/2)
5. GHC Jr. Heavyweight Championship: Kotaro Suzuki (c) vs. Eddie Edwards (NOAH "The First Navigation", January 29th, ****2/5)
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:49 AM   #1002 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

Are we talking about the 16 Carat Gold Night 3 match between LDRS and Cole/O Reilly? Because I went ****1/2 and it's my current MOTY, just ahead of Richards/Perkins from Socal Showdown II.

To me, it felt like the perfect mix of an old-school tag team match with a new-school vibe; they used a classic tag team formula but mixed it up with some innovative double team stuff, and it was just a pleasure to watch. Only thing holding it back for me was that there was a tad too much overkill at the end. That's my only real criticism.
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:06 AM   #1003 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

I have it at about ****1/4 now. If the match was less sloppy I would rate it higher. At points it seemed like they were trying to do everything so fast that they messed up a few things, examples being the double sharpshooter, the tombstone (Scurll's head was about 5 inches off the mat and it looked silly), the missed superkicks etc, but I enjoyed the rest too much to give it a lower rating.
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:17 AM   #1004 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

Dragon Gate USA - Open The Southern Gate

CIMA vs. Johnny Gargano - ****

Fantastic match. Chuck Taylor is obviously the most well known guy in Ronin but Gargano is quickly emerging as a breakout star this year. Everything he did was so crisp and smooth and he uses a good mix of strikes, submissions, and combinations. Turning into a really good all around wrestler. The one thing I don't like that I've seen DGUSA do a lot this year is in matches someone will kick out of a finisher late in the match and you'll see someone win after they hit the same thing like two or three times or just give him every finisher they use. It just seems flat at times. But regardless of that, this is a really nice match you guys should check out. I could see rating it even a 1/4* higher.

Dream Partner Tag Team Match
PAC & Ricochet vs. Chuck Taylor & Akira Tozawa - ****1/2

AWESOME. Going in I had my doubts because obviously these guys aren't regular tag teams at all but this just has fantastic written all over it. So many intertwining feuds and storylines inside the match it made for a really good story unfolding. You had PAC and Ricochet teaming together, two guys who clearly don't like each other and each one wants to be known as the best high flyer in the world, and they just tried to one up each other the whole match. You have Chuck Taylor and Ricochet, who have a storied history on the indies and obviously the Ronin/Blood Warriors feud going on at the time, not to mention incredible chemistry together which made for some moments early in the match that got everyone in the building on their feet. And finally you have PAC and Tozawa who had a big title match the next night in Atlanta, and they just wanted to beat the hell out of each other. Tozawa split him open with a headbutt on the outside, so PAC was bleeding throughout the whole match. And everyone knows unplanned blood just makes a match 4x better. I'd say the biggest thing I liked about this match was that it never got overly spotty, like you see a lot of in this company. I recently watched the main event from United: Philly and that just got ridiculous. It was like 630 after shooting star, then a corkscrew into a moonsault and there was no selling, just a bunch of flipping. This was much better than that match if you ask me, and honestly it's probably the best tag match I've seen all year. Yeah, I just said that. Watch this sucker.
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:59 AM   #1005 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovemachine View Post
Are we talking about the 16 Carat Gold Night 3 match between LDRS and Cole/O Reilly? Because I went ****1/2 and it's my current MOTY, just ahead of Richards/Perkins from Socal Showdown II.

To me, it felt like the perfect mix of an old-school tag team match with a new-school vibe; they used a classic tag team formula but mixed it up with some innovative double team stuff, and it was just a pleasure to watch. Only thing holding it back for me was that there was a tad too much overkill at the end. That's my only real criticism.
that is the exact one I'm talking about. I actually have NO PROBLEM with the 'overkill' at the end. I rarely ever consider a match overkill, at all, even in extreme cases unless the finish ends up weaker than a previous move. In my opinion the finish worked, so I had no problem with it.

I totally agree on the old school formula, and it was easily the best thing about this match. the only problem was....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubz123 View Post
I have it at about ****1/4 now. If the match was less sloppy I would rate it higher. At points it seemed like they were trying to do everything so fast that they messed up a few things, examples being the double sharpshooter, the tombstone (Scurll's head was about 5 inches off the mat and it looked silly), the missed superkicks etc, but I enjoyed the rest too much to give it a lower rating.
All about the sloppiness. This is probably MOTY if everything had been clean, but it wasn't even close. I also agree about them trying to do everything too fast. If O'reilly takes his time, he could have gotten that double sharpshooter. Most of the bad spots I was just like....chill out guys, and get it right! that's something I always like about the Machine Guns. They always take an extra second to make sure the spot is right. Obviously you liked it a quarter star more than me, but I just think the sloppiness turned me off to it a bit more than you.
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:21 PM   #1006 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

My Weekend of catching up continues:

ROH Manhattan Mayhem IV:

LAX vs. Kings of Wrestling
***3/4

Action wasn’t too bad, and the crowd was way into it. There just wasn’t enough substance here to put it over the top. The workover really didn’t build well enough to make the crowd want the big hot tag. Even when Homicide managed to get the advantage, he fell on the back suplex that he was supposed to counter into the tag. The high point in the match, however, was Hernandez’s dominance once he got the tag. The crowd was really hot here, but they died down big time before the finishing stretch. I love Claudio and all, but I don’t think the running European should be a finisher. He has like six moves that are better finishers. There was a weird “wait, that’s it?” at the end of the match. All in all, not bad, but you gotta feel like these two teams can do better.

Daniels vs. Richards
***1/2

Ok, so maybe I’m the only one who remembers this, (or cares) but under old Pure Wrestling Rules, if you tied someone up in the ropes and the referee breaks it up, it does NOT count as a ropebreak, it counts as a neutral break. Ropebreaks are only used in the competitor CHOOSES to use tit to break up a pin or submission. So the first ropebreak used makes no sense at all here. Even worse is the fact that Daniels had to TELL the ref to dock Davey a ropebreak. Just weird.

Anyway, Daniels’ neckwork is very good here. He is beginning to carve his niche as the ‘neck work guy,’ in much the same way Nigel became the ‘arm work guy,’ which I really like. When you can associate a particular workover, I think it really helps the wrestlers’ persona. This neckwork leads to a two ropebreak lead. (should be one, grrr) Davey does a more than decent job selling it, and actually stops a suplex attempt during his first comeback, which was very cool.

Davey uses consecutive leg submissions to even up the ropebreak scoreboard, and seems to be gaining control when Daniels decides to begin working the Koji clutch into his offense. I think they were smart to have Davey escape the first attempt, but use the ropebreak on the second. Too often we see guys immediately grab the ropes in Pure rules matches instead of working to escape first, so I liked how this helped the story. Davey mounts another comeback and executes an insane double stomp to Daniels draped over the guardrail. Damn that was painful. Davey then executes a superplex followed by a suplex into an armbar, which I actually didn’t like at all. His neck was too hurt early in the match to do a suplex, but now, AFTER two Koji clutches, he does two in a row. I don’t like it, but it leads to the third ropebreak.

The submissions in the ropes that followed were really excellent, as both men clearly saw it as their best ways to win, and se the match apart as something different. The botch was pretty horrible all around, and clearly meant to be the finish, and took the match down big time for me. Luckily, the crowd stayed into it for the fake finish to go through, but for how many times I’ve seen Davey hit that, I just don’t get why he can’t do it all of a sudden. The match was a solid ****1/4 before the botch, but it was just too crucial of a spot to overlook in a match that already had a couple problems. (all of which were Davey’s fault) I am shocked to see so many people I respect rating this match so high with such clear flaws.

I like Davey, but I want the Davey from two years ago, when he had stories in his matches that led to something instead of the move-driven sloppy ones these days. I hate to blame Eddie again, but maybe Davey saw Eddie get over without ever telling stories in his matches, and he decided that was the way to go.

Edwards vs. Strong
***1/2

25 minutes of the SAME EDWARDS BULLSHIT. Seriously, if you’ve seen one big Edawrds singles match, you’ve seen them all! No story, no workover, no control, no comeback, just him and the other guy trading moves for 20+ minutes until they decide the end it. It’s the same thing every single time, whether the other party is Richards, Suzuki, Strong, Daniels (who probably had the best effort) or anyone else. Everyone hated Petey Willliams, but this is exactly what he was doing, and at least he knew how to time a comeback occasionally! Look, I love big moves as much as the next guy, but why should I care when it doesn’t even look like Edwards has had to dig down to pull them off? Hell, he was winning the match 30 seconds ago, just to lose and regain control, so why does a big counter mean anything now? Not to mention predictability; The MOMENT Roderick pulled Eddie out to the apron, I said out loud to myself : “Gibson driver countered into frankenstiner.” I did it half as a joke, but since Eddie thinks that a frankenstiener is a comeback…it happened! I know this entire subject has been discussed to death (perpetuated mostly by myself) but I still can’t understand the hype behind Edwards when he just does the exact same thing every time and can’t tell a story to save his life. When they started trading the chops (easily the bet moment in the match) I started realizing that ROH wanted desperately for this to resemble the epic battles between Erik Stevens and Roderick. Problem is that Stevens knew how to tell a story, sold Roddy’s moves to perfection, and had some semblance of timing. In all honesty, Stevens has more actually ability than I have ever seen even in Edwards’ best work.

A lot has been made about the finish, but this is actually one thing I will not complain about. The nature of the match was that it was supposed to be a surprise victory, so I liked the surprise roll-up after a submissions struggle, especially after Eddie had just endured a big onslaught from Roddy. In was the only ‘dig deep’ moment they managed to squeeze in there. In general, even though I think Eddie is the weakest champion ROH has had since Jerry Lynn (wrestling wise, mind you) I was fine with him winning…if, for no other reason, he was OVER. (unlike Lynn) the fact is, ROH hasn’t had a good, over, babyface for a while. His main events, while flawed, are good enough to make the fans happy, and there is still enough of a buzz around him to keep what happened to Lynn from happening to him. The finish was just what his character needed.
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:27 PM   #1007 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

You knocked 3/4* of the match because of the botched finish? Bit harsh. The first rope break was for Daniels' character, contributing to his gradual heel turn and basically stealing a dubious rope break from Davey.
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:36 PM   #1008 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

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Originally Posted by Seabs View Post
You knocked 3/4* of the match because of the botched finish? Bit harsh. The first rope break was for Daniels' character, contributing to his gradual heel turn and basically stealing a dubious rope break from Davey.
Yeah, but it was still NOT the original rules of the match. Also, the referee really should be able to know the rules himself, and Daniels telling him looked like a botch.

And yeah, the botch WAS worth that much considering it looks to me like it was probably the finish and killed ALL the momentum, not to mention just looked completely ridiculous. The finish is the most important part of the match: botch the finish, and it really kills the match, for me.
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:41 PM   #1009 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

Yeah I agree it hurt the match a lot but not by that wide a margin. It was supposed to be the finish too, it was blatantly clear from the improvised finish straight after.
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:38 PM   #1010 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2011 MOTYC Thread

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Originally Posted by Seabs View Post
Yeah I agree it hurt the match a lot but not by that wide a margin. It was supposed to be the finish too, it was blatantly clear from the improvised finish straight after.
Yeah, I thought so, too, for that same reason.

I think I'm just harsher when it comes to finishes. To me, it should be the most memorable moment in a match...and in all honesty, as great as the pure wrestling stuff was, I think most people are remembering this for the botch before anything else.
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