Official Indy Womens Discussion Thread - Page 5 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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post #41 of 1394 (permalink) Old 12-14-2010, 11:03 PM
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Re: Official SHIMMER Discussion Thread

Out of the current talent used on SPARKLE, Mia Yim NEEDS to debut on the main SHIMMER shows ASAP. She's one of the best young prospects in US women's wrestling today. Her kicks are awesome and I think she can only grow in the future. Same for Athena.

Looking at the past, I think one of the biggest losses early on was Rebecca Knox. Her 2/3 falls match against Daizee Haze still remains a highlight of SHIMMER. That injury must have been really bad for her not to return. She could have played a significant role if she was still active.

Oh and Melissa must win the title, it's way overdue.
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post #42 of 1394 (permalink) Old 12-14-2010, 11:46 PM
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Re: Official SHIMMER Discussion Thread

interesting take from the previous poster even though the comparisons of Shimmer and Walmart are completely ridiculous but whatever. I wouldn't own 5 Shimmer DVDs if i hadn't first tried the company by downloading a show. Same goes for the 145 ROH DVDs i now own. Wouldn't have bought any of them if i didn't first try them through the downloading a show. To me its basically a try before you buy. Is it illegal, YES but companies like ROH wouldn't have received the hundreds of dollars i spend with them each year if i hadn't first downloaded a show of theres.
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post #43 of 1394 (permalink) Old 12-15-2010, 01:52 AM
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Re: Official SHIMMER Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by smitlick View Post
interesting take from the previous poster even though the comparisons of Shimmer and Walmart are completely ridiculous but whatever. I wouldn't own 5 Shimmer DVDs if i hadn't first tried the company by downloading a show. Same goes for the 145 ROH DVDs i now own. Wouldn't have bought any of them if i didn't first try them through the downloading a show. To me its basically a try before you buy. Is it illegal, YES but companies like ROH wouldn't have received the hundreds of dollars i spend with them each year if i hadn't first downloaded a show of theres.
The comparison just says that there's something new to try in a different brand (wrestling or toothpaste) and you've most likely already bought a wrestling PPV (maybe WWF/E) at some point in your life, or a popular brand of toothpaste in the comparison. So I guess I left out that there should be a free sample stand for the toothpaste...just like there's a videos page on the SHIMMER website that gives you a sample of the action for free.

Now here toothpaste analogy doesn't fit for sure, (imagine the mess...ew) so let's make it, I dunno, samples of a new ice cream flavor (oh wait, that's messy too, but moving along...) from a new competing brand (and now we're at Sams Club or Costco instead for authenticity). So you don't need to steal the competing brand's ice cream, 'Chunky Funky', just to get a taste since you have got a free sample. Analogy saved. So free samples of wrestling are the video pages on the SHIMMER site, or written recaps of PPVs.

Sure I may not be getting through to anyone enough for them to quit pirating, but still just showing that it isn't necessary. It is good that you bought all that merch though to support the companies that entertain you. That's what it comes down to really for me, if it's enriching your life in some way, you should spend the money even if you already stole it.

Now for SHIMMER related posting...Sara Del Rey rocks!

Last edited by ManiacMichaelMyers; 12-15-2010 at 02:00 AM.
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post #44 of 1394 (permalink) Old 12-15-2010, 02:23 AM
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Re: Official SHIMMER Discussion Thread

Rain is still in WSU and imo being used a lot better than she ever was in Shimmer as was Amber O'Neal come to think of it. Jetta Recently returned to the ring after her 'retirement' so it's not out of the question that she'll come back and since it's wrestling never say never to Lacey coming to as a wrestler either.

DP recently posted all the group shots that had been taken at tapings it's really interesting to see how the roster has grown over time and also who has come and gone as well as those who have been there the whole time.

















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post #45 of 1394 (permalink) Old 12-15-2010, 03:19 AM
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Re: Official SHIMMER Discussion Thread

I gotta say I'm kinda burned out on Shimmer. At least on the recent volumes edited, and Prazak's booking of the title scene. The problem of having such a long reign for a champ is that it has to end with a bang, and immediately establish the new champ as an awesome threat.

But MsChif reign was a bit lackluster, during the last six months, and I'm still not convinced by Madison Eagles. I know she has her fans, but i'm just not seeing it, the same way i'm not seeing what supposedly makes Johnny Gargano so great in Chikara. So Shimmer's actual title scene doesn't do it for me. At all.

(personally, if they really wanted a heel champ, i'd have waited for Nicole Matthews to lose the tag belts, and have her defeat MsChif for the title. But that's just me.)

Now the rest of the recent cards is also a lot to blame for my lack of interest in these past volumes of Shimmer : too many short and so-so matches, that don't do much in the way of feud building, or establishing n00bs girls, and of course, the special attraction matches featuring guests or joshi stars. Yeah, those are good, but they're not doing much in the long term either : more often than not, they're just a way to give something to do for wrestlers who have accomplished everything else in the company, and fill an already stacked card.

(which is kind of why i'm annoyed when Shimmer überfans or Diva Dirt fans use Shimmer booking as the example to follow for mainstream companies, as far as women's wrestling goes. Cos nothing screams "long-term mainstream tv booking & buyrates" more than half a dozen forgettable matches, and special attraction matches between random joshi star #123654 vs already established US star, where there's no feud going on)

That said, my old Shimmer volumes are still there, and i'll add to the K-nox love. I still miss her.
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post #46 of 1394 (permalink) Old 12-15-2010, 09:23 AM
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Re: Official SHIMMER Discussion Thread

It's booked similar to the Puro promotions that way, instead of like the US promotions. But you are right, it's not mainstream style booking.



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post #47 of 1394 (permalink) Old 12-15-2010, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Official SHIMMER Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by ManiacMichaelMyers View Post
I'm not sure about this new Walmart brand toothpaste, I think I'll just steal it, because I buy Crest here all the time anyhow.
No, it's nothing like that. That argument has always been pointless. Piracy doesn't involve stealing. It involves making a clone of something (an inferior clone too) and distributing that.

Making a copy of the video content doesn't really matter because media content, on it's own, is worthless in 2010. It's too abundant to have a value.

Pirating something isn't comparable to stealing a rare, physical master copy (which is what the toothpaste is).

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post #48 of 1394 (permalink) Old 12-15-2010, 10:20 AM
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Re: Official SHIMMER Discussion Thread

I probably wouldn't have gotten into SHIMMER, if I hadn't downloaded Hamada vs. Del Rey from this site. I still bought the DVD.
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post #49 of 1394 (permalink) Old 12-15-2010, 12:17 PM
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Re: Official SHIMMER Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Shirley Crabtree View Post
No, it's nothing like that. That argument has always been pointless. Piracy doesn't involve stealing. It involves making a clone of something (an inferior clone too) and distributing that.

Making a copy of the video content doesn't really matter because media content, on it's own, is worthless in 2010. It's too abundant to have a value.

Pirating something isn't comparable to stealing a rare, physical master copy (which is what the toothpaste is).
Piracy doesn't involve stealing? Wow. I'm sure all the recording artists, movie producers, software designers (who choose to charge, a.k.a. non-freeware), and other companies who are losing money every day to piracy would differ with that opinion. Saying that my argument is "pointless" tells me everything I need to know about you. Perhaps you just fail to see the point, or just conveniently choose not to.

Media content worthless? Ok, so you like band such and such or movie such and such...so tell that to the creator. "Mr. or Ms. Creator, I think your product is worthless due to it's over-abundance, so I'm not gonna pay you any money for your life's work. I may or may not also believe that art has no real value." (scrolls through millions of stolen songs on iPod for immediate-near-future enjoyment).

Quote:
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I probably wouldn't have gotten into SHIMMER, if I hadn't downloaded Hamada vs. Del Rey from this site. I still bought the DVD.
Well I've see Sara Del Rey at a live show, where she kicked some jobber outta her boots, and I've seen Hamada on TNA displaying some of the finest, if not the finest, female wrestling I've ever seen. Those names are selling points enough. Once again, at least you buy the product, which is why a lot of artists just put there stuff of for free now hoping there are people like you that will do just that, buy after they tried.

Look I know I may not convince those that have already justified things to themselves, but let's take this piracy debate outta the SHIMMER thread.

Last edited by ManiacMichaelMyers; 12-15-2010 at 12:24 PM.
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post #50 of 1394 (permalink) Old 12-15-2010, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Official SHIMMER Discussion Thread

Yay! I like having the opportunity to write long essays!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManiacMichaelMyers View Post
I'm sure all the recording artists, movie producers, software designers (who choose to charge, a.k.a. non-freeware), and other companies who are losing money every day to piracy would differ with that opinion.
The entertainment industry isn't "losing money to piracy", that's a myth perpetuated by it's conservative Powers That Be. Various studies by major universities and the U.S. government, amongst others, back that up. The difference that piracy does bring about is that it changes the channels, flow and distribution of income and forces companies to adapt their business models accordingly. Those who refuse to adapt will lose money but, in reality, the entertainment industry, as a whole, makes more money now than ever before. Consumers listen to far more music on youtube, for example, (which pays its way through advertising etc.) than they ever listened to when they were buying cassette tapes.

The attitudes of those artists, record company's etc., that you refer to, are no different to the attitudes of the equivalent entities during the advent of radio broadcasting. Artists and record companies went to great lengths to ensure that their work would never be broadcast via this nasty, reckless, uncontrollable new medium. They did so under the false assumption that, if someone could listen to a song for free at home, then they would no longer have any reason to spend money on attending live performances.

Those backwards ideas now sound laughable, just as the current demonising of file-sharing will do, in 50 or so years time.

The extreme restrictions placed on airplay decades ago spawned pirate radio, which helped launch the careers of many of the greatest musicians and DJs of all time and, ultimately, forced the Powers That Be to wake up, stop being stubborn and bring themselves in line with reality. The supply was eventually forced meet the demand, which benefitted everyone.

Quote:
Media content worthless?
Anyone can create high-quality audio or video content and distribute it to an infinite number of people nowadays. It requires no special skill or any expensive equipment.

Why should I pay to watch wrestling when I can watch a girl masturbate on Chatroulette, for free? The entertainment marketplace is ridiculously competitive now, in that sense. If anything, the technology companies are to blame for any problem that development causes, not filesharers.

The thing is, the ability to watch something/listen to something isn't what's being sold here. What's actually being sold is the whole package: from the cover, to the case, to the collectability, to the opportunity to directly support/influence a company/artist, to the sentimental value of physical things, to the guarantee that the stuff works...and so on. You're selling membership of an elite club, basically.

---


The way I see it, there's a curve of fandom nowadays. You can start off, like I did, as a poor teenager - someone who can only download the occasional wrestling show due to a cheap, shitty internet connection, watches Heat on wwe.com, and can't afford to pay for any of this stuff. You can then gradually make the transition towards being a frequent buyer of obscure shit, who thus directly financially supports the artist/producer/industry/whatever.

There will always be certain perks to buying and owning, when compared to downloading and watching IMO. Everyone would rather have a DVD than a crappy media file on their computer. If you take away the opportunity to view, from those to whom money is a barrier, then you nip your future generations of paying customers in the bud and you slow the spreading of information about your product. Filesharing does need to be controlled, legitimised and channelled in the right directions but to completely get rid of piracy would be like getting rid of running water, just because it's too cheap to meter now, and forcing everyone to buy Evian instead.

tl;dr I'm massively pro-piracy and I must've bought about 35 wrestling DVDs this year. If it wasn't for piracy I wouldn't even be a fan of wrestling any more. Let alone would I be spreading the word about a little-known women's promotion.


Speaking of which, back on topic:

It's difficult to apply a lot of this to a company like SHIMMER because, as I said earlier, they literally survive from one taping to the next, based largely on DVD sales. They have a very old-fashioned, simplistic business model.

They need as much money as they can get now and can't necessarily afford to wait months or years for someone to become hooked enough to buy frequently or for a freeloader to pass the word on by writing blogs, doing youtube reviews, posting on message boards, tweeting or whatever. SHIMMER also has a cap on the number of live fans that they can accommodate, which means that freebies could only have a limited impact when it comes to promoting stuff that you can't download - like the live event experience or a signed picture, for two examples.

So, if your looking to attach some "morality" or "guilt" thing to piracy, then I can see the argument that it can apply to a tiny company like SHIMMER but piracy doesn't make a shite of difference to someone like Lady Gaga, for example. She'll just eventually get all of the money back, and more, through other means. If she tells you that she's "losing money" because people are "stealing her stuff" then she's either an idiot or just very stubborn IMHO.

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