Official Indy DVD Thread - Page 850 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:18 AM   #8491 (permalink)
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I'm actually surprised by the answers, noting the way this was worded. If they're good, then surely someone has nominated it as such? I don't care who the promotion is or whoever is in it (the latter up to a certain degree), if people are recommending it, or singing its praise, I will watch it.

Though, if you're to say would I rather watch WWE's wrestling as compared to RoH, I'd say yes, I would. I prefer WWE style as it isn't OTT. That said, Steen's shoot (as well as Steen/Davey's confrontation shoot) have gotten me interested in RoH, again. So maybe this new direction will change my mind.
I think at it's best the ROH style has the better potential than the WWE style. WWE limits moves and moves are cool to see in matches. However WWE has much better story telling in their matches and I usually like their matches more. That doesn't mean that ROH can't have the same story telling aspect though, they just usually don't incorporate into their matches. When they had guys like Danielson wrestling for them regularly they did and I would put some of those matches up there with anything WWE has ever put on but now ROH seems to be more about the MOVEZ AND SPOTZ and less on telling a compelling story in the ring.

The really big matches are different though. Unless ROH can find a way to get 70,000 people to their shows they are never going to replicate the atmosphere that WWE creates for Wrestlemania. A great Wrestlemania match with an amazing atmosphere and big time feel is something that indy wrestling can never replicate.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:46 AM   #8492 (permalink)
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And those "MOVEZ and SPOTZ" type matches is exactly why I choose WWE.

Of course that isn't to say I'd say the same for any period of RoH, but rather the product up until early this year. Aside from maybe the Cole/Jacobs match there really isn't a single RoH match I could care for in its execution. I love Generico/Steen matches but even that Ladder War match left a LOT to be desired whereas there are good/fun matches being churned out in WWE. They may be more restrictive in what they do yet they still make it work (whether it's storyline-based or simply a fun match-up on Superstars).

I do love RoH-style but it falls back onto the issue that most here have with the product. It's the general direction/execution that stops me from continually loving it as I once did. I just wouldn't feel right in answering his post with RoH like I see many people doing on forums and Youtube. Perhaps there was a time when vilifying a WWE fan was "okay" to do, but doing it now and forcing newer wrestling fans onto a product such as RoH, imo, is hurting the medium because it creates a mindset on what wrestling should be. A mindset that throws psychology, selling and the greatness of wrestling completely out the window. I sound jaded, don't I?

Anyway, as for the atmosphere that Wrestlemania produces, it may be something great (hell, larger than life, even), but I wouldn't say a crowd's size hurts the match for me. A great match should be able to draw ME in. I may not be in the venue, but don't I still count as a member of the match's audience?
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:35 PM   #8493 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

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Originally Posted by TaylorFitz View Post
I think at it's best the ROH style has the better potential than the WWE style. WWE limits moves and moves are cool to see in matches. However WWE has much better story telling in their matches and I usually like their matches more. That doesn't mean that ROH can't have the same story telling aspect though, they just usually don't incorporate into their matches. When they had guys like Danielson wrestling for them regularly they did and I would put some of those matches up there with anything WWE has ever put on but now ROH seems to be more about the MOVEZ AND SPOTZ and less on telling a compelling story in the ring.

The really big matches are different though. Unless ROH can find a way to get 70,000 people to their shows they are never going to replicate the atmosphere that WWE creates for Wrestlemania. A great Wrestlemania match with an amazing atmosphere and big time feel is something that indy wrestling can never replicate.
Quack vs Kingston felt like big time Wrestlemania match to me. I mean, yeah it was in front of 800 people I guess? but the atmosphere was amazing and EPIC was written all over it.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:20 PM   #8494 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

I understand the feeling of watching a WM match and with the large crowd it making it mean more and seem like the pinnacle of wrestling, but in most cases it's how into it/emotion they give and get that determines the crowd's factor into a match. Like with PWG, nine times out of ten the crowd helps because they're so into everything while in DGUSA it can actually hurt the enjoyment of a match when they don't care about the guys in the ring (Jon Davis) or in CZW where sometimes they want to skip everything and get to the hardcore/main event matches.


And for the style difference you have to look at who's in the ring, who they have backstage and how much they work. With the schedule they keep, you can't have WWE guys busting out MOVEZ every night so in theory they have to learn to work smarter and tell more of a story while you can bust out more in ROH because you don't have those restrictions. Problem with that is with the exodus of the top tier ROH guys there's almost no-one to work with to teach when, where and how to do them so you get more overkill, generally speaking. Plus Delirious may feel under the gun to do the current style to try and gain people back that left during Cornette's time as booker and show that his version of ROH is dead with the run-ins and ether finishes and matches for $5000 in fake money.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:18 PM   #8495 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

I get what TaylorFitz was plugging away at, unfortunately those days of ROH working that type of match has seemingly evaporated. It doesn't take a lifelong ROH fan to know their format as changed. Drastically. Matches worked within the company are done differently than once before. As unusual as it may sound. Can only attribute it to a change of booking + the loss of leaders within the ranks. I'm not saying the COULDN'T make a match feel huge or special & have the potential to be "amazing" like once before. Only that it seems very few and far between with the current format of the company.

--------

PWG DDT4 2013


1) First Round Match
Young Bucks (Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson) vs Inner-City Machine Guns (Ricochet & Rich Swann) ~ ***3/4


2) PWG Tag Team Championship - First Round Match
Super Smash Brothers(c) (Player Uno & Stupefied) vs The Unbreakable F'n Machines (Brian Cage & Michael Elgin) ~ **3/4


3) First Round Match
Dojo Bros (Roderick Strong & Eddie Edwards) vs Future Shock (Adam Cole & Kyle O'Reilly) ~ ***


4) First Round Match
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs Jay Briscoe & Mark Briscoe ~ **


5) PWG Tag Team Championship - Semi-Final Match
The Unbreakable F'n Machines(c) vs Young Bucks ~ ***1/4


6) Semi-Finals Match
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs Future Shock ~ ***


7) B-Boy vs Willie Mack ~ 3/4*


8) Best of Three Series Match II - Knockout or Submission Only
Sami Callihan vs Drake Younger ~ ***1/2


9) PWG Tag Team Championship - DDT4 2013 Finals
Young Bucks(c) vs El Generico & Kevin Steen ~ ***3/4



Not the GREATEST PWG show in recent memory, yet it was chalk full of the usual PWG grandness. All of the matches nearly fall moot to the real special caviat of this show. El Generico's farewell. Worth owning solely for that aspect alone. :generico
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:29 PM   #8496 (permalink)
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Cornette leaving is perhaps a bigger reason in me wanting to get back into RoH than merely the Steen shoots, as I said. Though I don't quite think his booking has anything to do with the wrestling quality.

I really don't quite grasp how the exodus of wrestlers from the indy scene will affect that, either. These newer wrestlers were still trained by individuals who didn't fall prey to this style. Hell, a lot of the greater wrestlers are guilty of overkill, too (Steen/Generico - albeit to a lesser extent). I'd honestly feel there wouldn't be a difference if those that have left hadn't; that it's rather systemic of the environ/what the crowd wants than the lack of veteran talent to guide them. Wrestlers work differently within RoH than they do in other promotions. It isn't a good thing, it isn't a bad thing it's rather just not my thing. Maybe I'll change my mind once I get into the product, again, but right now no.

I'm actually starting to wonder how much a crowd plays into my enjoyment of the match. Normally, if I enjoy something and another person detests it I wouldn't change my opinion. Subjective approval is an egoistic value. It should, theoretically, be about how much it works for me rather than how much it works for others. I can understand that a well-received wrestler will probably have qualities that I will like, too, but if wrestler x appeals to me, even if he cannot click with the crowd, isn't that all that matters? I'm pretty positive that I zone a crowd out (if they aren't eruptively loud) like how a camera blurs the background in favour of its focused image.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:33 PM   #8497 (permalink)
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Sole fact someone like an Eddie Edwards or Michael Elgin can go to a promotion such as PWG, appear to have more fun, and end up putting out better performances than while in ROH leaves me to believe the collective output of ROH is what has caused their dip in the wrestling product for me. Which is why I made those points ^. Confluence of all aspects listed on this page - booking changes, lack of vets to guide, placating for the current crowd market - all seem to factor in why ROH is the way it is these days. Which isn't a negative at the whole. Only for certain people and their opinion, of course.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:40 PM   #8498 (permalink)
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Wrestling is Art "Pop" 2/16/2013

Sugar Dunkerton vs. Francis O'Rourke *1/2
Kobald vs. Jervis Cottonbelly **1/2
The Batiri vs. Drew Gulak and Estonian Thunderfrog **
Chuck Taylor vs. AR Fox ***
Mike Quackenbush vs. Jaka ** 1/2
Colt Cabana vs. Tim Donst *** 1/4
The Devastation Corporation vs. The Colony (Green Ant and AssailAnt) ***3/4

- Dunkerton/O'Rourk really struggled, way too much stalling at the beginning, but the end was pretty good.

- Kobald vs. Jervis Cottonbelly was significantly better than it had any right to be. Very fun. The Hogan/Warrior thing was fun.

- Batiri/Thrown together team was also better that it should be. Gulak is awesome.

- AR Fox and Taylor are good additions to this promotion. The match was fun too.

- Jaka is not good at the Savage gimmick. It feels like it shouldn't be a very hard gimmick to pull off, but he's an okay wrestler.

- Cabana is why this promotion works. Donst makes a great foil for Cabana, it's weird that this didn't main event though. I hope Cabana and Donst get to wrestle again in the future.

- Bakabella's gimmick is way too exclusive to most of the crowd and it was very apparent watching the crowd during his promo before the main event.

- I am now fully aboard The Devastation Corporation Bandwagon. Nothing in wrestling works better than a giant monster heel wrestling an underdog face and the Devastation Corporation are already great at playing their role. Green Ant has plenty of experience in has half of the role from his excellent feud with Tursas.

- Wrestling is Art is the first Wrestling is promotion that I am sold on. The slight variations on the roster that each one has works best for Art (Cabana, Taylor, AR Fox, Gulak, and Dunkerton are an interesting addition to this group.) Cabana especially makes this one stand out and this seems like the right promotion for him. His 3 matches for the promotion (vs. Quack, Donst, and Green Ant) were all excellent uses for him. Taylor, Fox, and Gulak would all make interesting future opponents for him.

- Absolutely worth a $5 buy, especially for the last 2 matches but there isn't anything terrible on this show, which is more than I can say for any of the WI shows I've watched so far.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:45 PM   #8499 (permalink)
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I'm sold on that branch of Wrestling Is solely for naming their event Wrestling Is Art"Pop".
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:18 PM   #8500 (permalink)
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A bit saddened none of the DGUSA shows ever get put up on XWT. Or at least this year's. Probably aren't released yet so maybe I shouldn't count my chickens before they hatch in the sadness department.

Have to check out Morrison vs Tozawa whenever I can.
Same...really wanna watch those shows.
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