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post #5711 of 10970 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 07:33 PM
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Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

Well they need to stop running in places like North Carolina for one and right now stay in the northeast and maybe a show in the midwest because the lack of crowd heat always seems like one of the problems for EVOVLE/DGUSA. Also advertise because aside from Platt's sig and the thread on it I barely noticed anyone talking about the shows until the day of. But Gabe's got to keep ties with DGUSA because without that backing I don't know if he could keep the top guys he has for EVOLVE and without them I don't know how long EVOLVE would last.

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post #5712 of 10970 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 07:42 PM
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Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

EVOLVE/DGUSA couldn't even draw at the Rahway Rec. Center, outside of the original show. EVERYONE draws at Rahway. It really comes down to the complete lack (None) of promotion and lazy effort put in by Gabe and Sal. Sure, there's something to be said for the notable names being used/promoted, but how much can you actually rely, strictly, on the internet? Even more so when you announce shows and the main matches less than a month out? Gabe and Sal rely strictly on DVD sales, and now iPPVs, to make up for what they don't draw. It's been proven over time. They did the same thing with ROH and why when they went to new markets they were so baffled at the lack of people showing up. Not a difficult concept. You have to promote. Gabe's idea of promoting is posting links every two hours the day before a weekend of shows on Twitter.

If people keep shilling out x amount for DVDs/iPPVs, though, it could just turn into quantity. No idea what their numbers are. It'd be nice if they could establish one venue for EVOLVE, run a show/weekend every 4 weeks, and build from there. Been said a million times, EVOLVE needs to be the EC PWG, even in this sense.

Btw, word going around is that Highspots actually bankrolled both the Toronto and NC shows, which would explain a lot.

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post #5713 of 10970 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 07:57 PM
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Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

So how come Gabe goes on a tear about ROH not being properly ready for the iPPV, which granted they weren't but I kinda could get why though, yet he doesn't give his wrestlers the best shot on putting on a really awesome show because they didn't have a crowd. Its hard to feed off such a small crowd.
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post #5714 of 10970 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 10:21 PM
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Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

ROH Border Wars

Rhino vs Eddie Edwards

Great opener with a very good structure. Rhino is being built as a beast in ROH despite his loss here and it's definitely the best way he could be booked. He didn't lose anything from taking the roll up after being distracted by Truth. Eddie was really good in this match, and he sold the ribs very well indeed and this is the role he is great at as the underdog. Really fun match and a great way to open the show. ***1/2

ANX & TJP vs Young Bucks & Mike Mondo
Very enjoyable PWG style 6 man spotfest. Sloppy in a few places, but it didn't take away from my enjoyment and this is the perfect place for this style of match on an ROH card. ***1/4

Tomasso Ciampa vs Jay Lethal
Very good match with a pretty cool brawl to start with the first 5 minutes or so taking place on the outside. I wish Ciampas control segment lasted longer but the finishing stretch was very good, but I didn't like the ending at all, especially since it looks like the end of the feud and I don't know why Lethal went over, he doesn't need to at all. Anyway, good match. ***1/4

Mike Bennett vs Lance Storm
Really really good match. Storm is still great in the ring and Bennett had one of his best matches here imo. I wasn't sure on the finish, but the rest of the match was so enjoyable. I'm liking Bennett at the minute but I think he should use the spinebuster as his finisher because it looks great and far better. ***1/4

The promo for Steen vs Davey is awesome!

Michael Elgin vs Adam Cole
Awesome match and the MOTN to this point. I loved Elgin dominating Cole with sick forearms and power moves and the way he was constantly cutting him off. A really well done power vs speed match that both guys showed how good they are. I'm becoming a huge Elgin fan, his offense looks so great and his strength is genuinely impressive. The deadlift superplex/falcon arrow and chaos theory were insane! Cole was awesome as the underdog too, and the finishing stretch was great. ***3/4

Finlay vs Roderick Strong
Not the match I had hoped for at all but it was still good. Finlay showing he was boss for the first 5 minutes was great, but then I really liked how Roddy got the advantage by showing he could be just as cunning as the veteran. The finish was really anti-climatic though and it really took away from the rest of the match becauseit ended with a sick kick after Roddy had worked the mid-section for the majority of the match. Silly. Saying that though I did really enjoy the majority of it but they could have a much better match for sure. ***

Briscoes vs WGTT
I skipped this match because I really couldn't care less about this feud or the match or WGTT and I couldn't even bring myself to watch another match between these two teams.

Davey Richards vs Kevin Steen
This felt pretty big right from the entrances, and Steens entrance was awesome. The stare down at the start was really good and built up the tension. This was pretty full on right from the start, but never in the same way something like Davey/Eddie was with a bunch of random spots and moves. Davey started it off quick with the dive to the outside and was great at instantly playing up to the crowd and acting like a dick, that is the Davey Richards I want to see in ROH again. Davey hit an exploder on the apron quite early on after Steen had been dominating him on the outside for a bit, but it felt like an important spot because it gave Davey the advantage and control over Steen that he would get after a move that big, but instead of going straight for the cover, he was more interested in acting like a douche with the crowd and toying with Steen. It came off as him being really annoyed with the crowd for not cheering him which was good. Davey worked over Steens leg a bit, and Steen sold it really well in the long run and it did come back in to play later when Davey hit the dragon screw and started going for the ankle locks. There was still a bit of silly Davey psychology such as the two double foot stomps straight into an ankle lock, although one of them was done with Steens leg trapped in the ropes so it added pressure to the leg so it was slightly more acceptable. Despite that, Davey was fucking great here. The way he gradually got more and more desperate as the match went on and vissibly pissed off at the crowd and the fact he couldn't put Steen away was great, and he even busted out the DR Driver II that he hasn't used in years which is basically like the Jay Driller, but because of the size difference here, it looked fucking brutal. The finishing stretch was awesome with some great nearfalls, especially the second Sharpshooter attempt by Steen which the crowd was going bat shit for. Talking of the crowd, they were incredible, even beating out the Elgin match from SITS, and it really added a lot to the match. the actual finish was great too imo and Steen selling the leg almost all the way through while climbing the buckles or inbetween moves really helped the match imo. the repeated stuggles for the package piledriver were great too. I've read people saying it wasn't long enough, but it must have been about 20 minutes which is a great length, especially the type of match they wrestled, and any longer would have been overkill. I dunno, maybe people wanted another Davey/Eddie style match with tons of moves but this was so much fucking better. Really really great title match, that despite the full on nature, never came off as a spot fest or illogical in any way apart from the one spot I talked about earlier with the foot stomps. The way each guy became so desperate, and especially Davey with his facial expressions and actions was awesome to watch unfold I thought. I'm sure there will be some people who might find more flaws in the match than me but I'm not bothered really. I loved this, my US MOTY so far. ****1/4 +

Awesome show. It's really sad what happened with the live stream, because this show was legit great from start to finish, not a match under ***. The worst match was probably Finlay/Strong and I still enjoyed that quite a bit, and it would have been so much better with a good finish. The whole card ranged from good - great, and the main event felt like a big time match and imo, it really delivered big time. US Show of the year for me by a long way and ROH's best show for fucking ages, as well as their best match imo.
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post #5715 of 10970 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 10:28 PM
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Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

It's a damn shame that EVOLVE drew such a miserable live crowds for 12 and 13. I'm usually a guy who has this anti-populistic POV and sees things his way (don't give a shit about other people emotional/mass investments, and live crowds), but the lack of a bigger crowd really hurt some macthes, like LowKi/Jigsaw, LowKi/Davis and Ricochet/Generico. Those matches were great, but could have been bonafide MOTYCs in different enviroments. Yeah, I can't believe I'm saying that...
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post #5716 of 10970 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 12:51 AM
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Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

Gabe post this in the ROHWorld Forum:

I apologize to any fan who took offense. The worst thing is putting any of you in the middle. There is plenty of good wrestling for you to support and I hope you will. I just wrote this on my Facebook and it is very heartfelt. Thanks for hearing me out. I'll leave the board now.

"You stop yourself from saying something 1000 times, but the one time you take 30 seconds and write something out of anger it blows up beyond your imagination. If you are reading this the bottom line is all you really care about is great wrestling, good storylines and something compelling. We had two awesome EVOLVE shows last weekend. Jon Davis stepped up and put in the best weekend of his career. AR Fox showed why we called him the "#1 draft pick" last year with three very different, amazing matches. Low Ki proved why he is now an esteemed veteran. El Generico made his case for being among the elite in the world. Sami Callihan and Ricochet both proved why they are at the top of the list of today's new stars. Johnny Gargano was a Champion in every sense of the word, including giving a 5th grader and her family a memory they will always cherish. The list goes on and on with Samuray Del Sol, Jigsaw, Chuck Taylor, Silas Young all delivering and everyone on the undercard doing their part. Our staff of Ivan, Bryan, Sean and Brandon among others, led by Sal, worked tirelessly to put on those two memorable events and great iPPV streams. I took the attention away from all that by losing my cool for a moment and lashing out with profanity. I can't make any promises in the future, but I'll remember this lesson. I ended up doing the last thing I wanted to do- take the attention off the wrestling that we all care about."

Is so lol Im sorry but buy EVOLVE!
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post #5717 of 10970 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 06:12 AM
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Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

Ring Of Honor - At Our Best (March 13th, 2004)

The Amazing Red vs. Jack Evans vs. Jimmy Rave vs. Teddy Hart vs. Sonjay Dutt vs. Mark Briscoe
Nice way to open the show, at parts it was kinda slow (for my taste) other than that it had some nice spots.

Slyk Wagner Brown (w/ April Hunter) vs. Xavier (w/ Prince Nana)

Nigel McGuinness vs. Jerry Lynn
I was expecting a 30 minute technical showcase but this was barely 10 minutes if I remember correct..

Number One Contenders Trophy
Matt Stryker vs. John Walters


The Second City Saints (Colt Cabana and Ace Steel w/Traci Brooks) vs. The Prophecy (BJ Whitmer and Dan Maff w/Allison Danger)

ROH Pure Wrestling Title
CM Punk vs. "The Phenomenal" AJ Styles (c)

This was an awesome match, after the match Ricky Steamboat who was the guest ref even handed out some Arm Drags.

Hydro vs. Roderick Strong
No rating
Both this match and Aries vs Daniels was just a 3 minute clip of a couple spots + the finish. Why bother putting them in the chapters menu if they're just clipped matches. Atleast call it "Hydro vs Strong Highlights" so I don't expect to see a full match.

Austin Aries vs. Danny Daniels
No rating, same as above.

Cage Match
ROH World Heavyweight Championship
Samoa Joe (c) vs. Jay Briscoe (w/Mark Briscoe)

Awesome brutal match. Jay bled buckets of blood, it was fun rooting for Jay to try and make a comeback after being beaten up by Joe nearly the whole match.

Scramble Cage Match
The Carnage Crew (Loc, DeVito, Justin Credible and Masada) vs. Special K (Izzy, Dixie, Hydro, Angel Dust, Lit, Deranged, Slim J, Mellow and various other goofs)

I heard people thought this was a terrible match but I liked it. Masada doing a 450 Splash from the top was pretty sweet.

Overal a decent show. Only Joe vs Jay and Punk vs Styles are really worth watching, the other matches not so much.

EDIT: Does anyone know what exactly happened between Dan Maff and Homocide that caused Maff to be blackballed from alot of promotions? I heard Maff fucked Homocide's underage sister or something but I don't know if that's true? It happened some years ago so maybe it's been cleared up by now?

Last edited by Certified G; 05-17-2012 at 06:46 AM.
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post #5718 of 10970 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 06:33 AM
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Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

Originally Posted by KingCrash View Post
Well they need to stop running in places like North Carolina for one and right now stay in the northeast and maybe a show in the midwest because the lack of crowd heat always seems like one of the problems for EVOVLE/DGUSA. Also advertise because aside from Platt's sig and the thread on it I barely noticed anyone talking about the shows until the day of. But Gabe's got to keep ties with DGUSA because without that backing I don't know if he could keep the top guys he has for EVOLVE and without them I don't know how long EVOLVE would last.
lol. And yeah without the promise/possibility of going to Japan, Talent really drops off.

Originally Posted by enlightenedone9 View Post
So how come Gabe goes on a tear about ROH not being properly ready for the iPPV, which granted they weren't but I kinda could get why though, yet he doesn't give his wrestlers the best shot on putting on a really awesome show because they didn't have a crowd. Its hard to feed off such a small crowd.
Whats even worse is that he had problems the first time he went on iPPV

Originally Posted by DeeCee View Post
EVOLVE is three years old and had Finlay and Generico on one show, Callihan on both (regard of what I may think of him) and Low Ki on both. The fact they could not even draw 300/400 each night is ridiculous. i wish Gabe would leave DG: USA behind and concentrate on EVOLVE. If he cut out being a cunt, EVOLVE has potential. Real potential. I've always said that.

The one thing that could, and will now hurt him is that ROH is taking legal action against him for comments he made, which are in breach of the terms of his agreement upon leaving.
That will be interesting. Gabe could be out of a bit of money

Originally Posted by Seabs View Post
EVOLVE would be doing much better if someone else runned it. Gabe's got DGUSA and ROH distractions which clearly hurt EVOLVE. An Indy show with Finlay/Generico/Low Ki/Callihan should not be struggling to draw 100 people. It's not like EVOLVE is a local Indy on a tight budget with nothing to work with either. They've got international talent and mainstream attention as far as the Indy market goes.

I wonder how badly them being on iPPV hurts their live attendance. Any word on what iPPV numbers they do? There isn't really a live experience you associate with an EVOLVE show like you would a ROH show.
Meltzer mentioned awhile back there numbers on PPV for Mania weekend for the $2 show did close to 2000 buys but other then that, I've never seen numbers posted.

Wrestling Is Fun (WIF) - Two

1. STIGMA vs Gran Akuma

2. UltraMantis Black & Hallowicked vs The Batiri

3. Jack Bonza vs Shazza McKenzie

4. Mr Touchdown vs Dragonfly

5. Ophidian vs Dasher Hatfield

6. Johnny Ego vs Fire Ant

7. Jigsaw vs Kodama

8. Green Ant & Saturyne vs Los Ice Creams

Last edited by smitlick; 05-17-2012 at 08:50 AM.
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post #5719 of 10970 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 07:28 PM
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Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

Hey guys, what are the best ROH DVDs from 2009 - Now? 5-6 best each year maybe. And then just the absolute best two from each year.

Oh and they need to be available on ROH's website to purchase.

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as long as there's a prosperous kingdom, there will be an evil bent on destroying it;
and as long as there's an oppressive force threatening Hyrule, there will be a boy...

in a green tunic, silver shield, and magic blade to stand against it.

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post #5720 of 10970 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 09:30 PM
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Re: Official Indy DVD Thread

2009: The Omega Effect, Aries vs Richards & Final Battle 2009

2010: Death Before Dishonor VIII, Final Battle 2010, Supercard Of Honor V, Bitter Friends Stiffer Enemies 2, Salvation, Glory By Honor IX

2011: Manhatten Mayhem IV, Only The Strong Survive, Honor Takes Center Stage: Chapter 1

Official Puroresu DVD Thoughts + Buyers Guide!
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