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Old 06-26-2011, 04:45 PM   #211 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lucha Libre Match/Show Discussion/Reviews

I think I've watched 5 wrestling matches from 2011, but if Terry is still tearing it up this year like he was last year then I seriously doubt he wouldn't be my pick for current best in the world. Finlay should go to IWRG and wrestle Terry and Navarro a bunch of times. Fuck, Finlay and Terry against the Traumas would be six stars. Actually Finlay against any decent maestro would probably rule. Throw him in with Solar for a while and let something happen.
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Old 06-26-2011, 04:56 PM   #212 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lucha Libre Match/Show Discussion/Reviews

there's a couple of good tags involving him from 09/01/2011 and 16/01/11. IIRC the first match is a more respectful match which breaks down into a brawl and the 16/01/2011 match is basically the culmination of that into a proper IWRG brawl. Seen a few other matches involivng him and he's his usual awesome self, Blue Panther/Navarro v Solar/El Sataninco might be something you'd be interested in, IIRC its on youtube and goes 30 minutes. Be prepared for some WTF finishes though
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Old 06-27-2011, 12:54 AM   #213 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jpchicago23 View Post
Does CMLL come on Directv? I've seen AAA on Galavision but not CMLL
Yes it does! Channel 404 on Saturdays!!

Does anyone know why I'm no longer seeing lucha libre triple A on directv???
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:35 AM   #214 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lucha Libre Match/Show Discussion/Reviews

From memory I'd only put 3/6/94, 9/6/95, RWTL 93 finals, Misawa/Kobashi 20/1/97, COTC6, WrestleWar 89, Santo/Casas 97, Casas/Dandy 92, Jumbo/Misawa 1/9/90 and maybe Panther/Atlantis 91, Flair/Windham 86 & Jumbo/Tenryu 89 over Cicloncito/Damiancito. If you asked me in two hours I'd probably change my opinion since I can't hold one down for shit. Just an excellent, excellent match. I'm not as big on the RWTL 96 finals as others. It's MOTY for me but it never screamed top 10.

My opinion of the AJPW 22/5/92 six-man being the best 6-man ever seems pretty unpopular. I think that'd be the only six man I'd put ahead of the 97 minis trio, maybe 20/4/91. I'd put 22/5/92 ahead of RWTL 96 as well.

That Satanico/Solar vs Navarro/panther match is bloody great. haven't seen a huge chunk of non-WWE stuff this year but it's def. MOTY for me. Seen no IWRG in 2011 yet.
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Old 07-10-2011, 05:22 PM   #215 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lucha Libre Match/Show Discussion/Reviews

Never have known much about Lucha. I know AAA and CMLL are top promotions. Who are the big stars in each one? How many big shows a year? Who is doing better business? Who puts on better wrestling?

Would love to know all these answers.

I think the puro guys tend to wrestle more in CMLL and US Indy guys are seen more in AAA??
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Old 07-11-2011, 08:57 AM   #216 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lucha Libre Match/Show Discussion/Reviews

Been researching, I found out that..

CMLL definitely seems like the real deal. They are very conservative, they barely do any gimmick matches, except for a cage match like once a year. They have been around since 1933 which makes them the longest running promotion, I think. Both Sin Cara(Mistico) and Alberto Del Rio(Dos Caras Jr.) came from there, not sure who else. Titles don't change hands as frequently. I watched a few matches and the action is really good. CMLL looks like a great wrestling company that I'm going to start investing time in to watch. When I get back home, I am also going to see if I get them on tv.

Still need to check out more AAA, but they seem like TNA lol.
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:05 PM   #217 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lucha Libre Match/Show Discussion/Reviews

El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse - CMLL 9/14/84

This was amazing, utterly magnificent. The story of how Satanico goes from clear rudo (whilst still operating to the rules albeit pushing the boundaries as far as possible) to underdog in the last caida is marvellous. The opening fall features some lovely mat work and trading of submissions, to many the ambiguity in how lucha falls can end (i.e even the most standard looking submission can win a fall) puts them off the style but watching this it only adds to the unpredictability in how the fall will play out and when you have 2 amazing workers like these two who know how to tease near falls, it doesn't get any better. The opening matwork builds a frustration in Satanico with the way he jostles with the ref over his shoulders not being on the mat and the anger with which he throws Cochisse to the mat.

There's a strange spot where the ref makes Satanico wipe his injured arm but he seizes this opportunity to gain the momentum with a beautiful snapmare takedown and from there he controls the entire fall before winning with a submission. In Lucha generally the better matches have a clear structure whereby momentum is traded in the opening 2 falls with the object of establishing both men's ability so that in the deciding caida all bets are off as to who will lock in the killer submission or who will sneak a clever pinning combo. Thus Satanico dominating for a few minutes towards the end of the opening caida leaves the crowd immersed into how Cochisse will regain the momentum.

Satanico actually controls the beginnin of the next caida, again he pushes the limits with his rudo behaviour and rifles off some swank work designed on obliterating the left shoulder of Cochisse, but again its all 'legal'. Cochisse though in typical fashion manages to regain the momentum and slams Satanico to the mat. Here tradition would dictate Cochisse to submit Satanico given the weakened position Satanico is in..instead they tee off and mix running between the ropes. Usually this would be saved for the deciding fall where both men bust out everything in the arsenal..here its brilliant and Satanico has no answer for Cochisse.

We now enter the third caida and here is where a great match becomes magnificent. Satanico started as a clear rudo, by the opening stages of the third caida he's selling his ass off and making himself the ultimate underdog and Cochisse faking a handshake only adds to the story. Satancio has this great expression on the mat as if to say 'what the fuck, I was being a good sport you twat'. The trading of swank submissions and pinning combinations are marvellous and my favourite part of the match sees Satanico in a submission in the air before he breaks his injured arm free and slowly signals into a counter...and the crowd goes ballistic thinking he's about to score the upset. Instead we get a couple of sensational near falls before the finish, I won't spoil who wins but the finish is tremendous and the reaction is memorable.

This is Lucha at its finest IMO.

****3/4
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:53 PM   #218 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lucha Libre Match/Show Discussion/Reviews

Skayde & Solar v Shu El Guerrero & Negro Navarro, 11/01/2002

Very cool match. 25 mins of excellent matwork with a nice story thrown in. Match is essentially split into Skayde trying to get the better of Shu El Guerrero who refuses to budge whilst Solar and Navarro demonstrate the super matwork that has got everyone raving for over 9 years. Only problem sadly is the copout finish we get from Solar and Navarro as once again they go to a draw with neither man being able to get the better of the other. Skayde looked really good as well and it was a shame he and Navarro didn't get to lock up as I'm sure they would have done if it had been the usual 2/3 falls match.

***3/4


Solar v Negro Navarro, AULL 16/05/2009

Slick and engaging matwork which always feels like a struggle and which has a purpose, painfull stretching submissions and some insane moves for men this old. Continues to be the best pairing in wrestling at present, HOLY SHIT at a clean finish as well between them. No draws in this match.

****

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Old 07-22-2011, 01:46 PM   #219 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lucha Libre Match/Show Discussion/Reviews

Blue Panther v El Hijo Del Santo, Arena Coliseo Monterrey 9/04/2000

Think this may be my MOTY for 2000 now just ahead of Jericho vs Hunter LMS and Takayama v Kobashi.

Great lucha is all about building each fall to create an epic swing in momentum which is ultimately decided in the deciding caida. Traditionally the opening two falls are traded between both wrestlers with each caida usually resembling a mini squash in making one competitor look unstoppable at the expense of the other. This is designed to make the victim of the first fall's struggle in reclaiming the momentum that much greater and it works a treat here.

The opening caida has some swank matwork with both wrestlers displaying their ability in locking submisson attempts at will. Santo though gains the momentum early and from there proves too much for Panther who looks hopelessly out of his depth as Santo surges ahead before picking up the fall with a lovely sunset flip.

The second caida now sets about how Panther gets back into the match. Again Santo gets the better in the early going and continuing the story that he has a counter for every attempt Panther throws at him. This is the shorter fall but ends with a fucking lovely Panther transition into a snap submission which Santo submits too immediately. To me the transition was wonderful as Panther went from looking hopelessly outclassed to demonstrating his techincal ability in submitting Santo within the blink of an eye. Now both men have demonstrated they have the other guy's number and that both men realistically can win the match in an instant.

The final caida is the best of the match and typically features both men going all out in a bid to win the match. Panther immediately sets about ripping Santo's arm out of his socket and locks in another submisson, Santo though manages to reverse it and attempts a submisson of his own. His selling throughout the fall is great and by the end both men in particular feel like they've been in a marathon. Santo hits beautiful dive through the crowd and I mean its a thing of friggin beauty. In between this Panther has learnt from his earlier mistake in the fall and sets about grounding Santo and locking in a leg submisson or any limb he can grab and tear at. I dug how it looked like he was still clueless as to how to pick at Santo without putting himself in a vulnerable position and this all builds to another gorgeous bit of aerial flying by Santo- he eats a gorgeous crossbody to the floor and the exectution is tremendous. This isn't a crossbody that is hit nicely but doesn't look impactful, this looks like it hurt a fucking bomb. With both men trading some gorgeous near falls Santo locks in his signature submission hold and looks to have the match won when the ref (who I'm guessing was more of a rudo ref) throws Santo off of Panther when he gets the rope. Santo argues and this leads to a close near fall before Santo gets a quick flurry of offence reminiscent of the opening caida only Panther counters a victory roll by grabbing the rope and winning the match, looking like the biggest pile of shit walking the earth.

This match was a bonafide classic. It built tremendously between the matwork and flying in the final fall, built Panther's struggle from the opening fall up until the final caida tremendously with him finally having a dishonest answer in stopping Santo. Sets up the 28/05 match sensationally.

****1/2-****3/4
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Old 07-22-2011, 08:05 PM   #220 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lucha Libre Match/Show Discussion/Reviews

hey, I remember a while back someone was talking about some epic Brazilian brawls. Anyone know of any?
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