Official Puro Match/DVD Discussion Thread (NO SPOILERS) - Page 510 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:27 PM   #5091 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Puro Match/DVD Discussion Thread (NO SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MF83 View Post
Well, here comes a post -

chopchopchopchopchopchopchop "Yoooosh" *whip, running/jumping elbow* "ICHAUZO BAKAYARO!" *elbow drop*

Kojima is probably the most overrated wrestler today. People just assume he's this all time great but he has been in very few classic matches. Off the top of my head, when Tenryu carried him in All Japan, the 2006 G1 Finals vs Tenzan and, yeah. The way he carries himself adds a lot to his aura of greatness. You can really tell he was influenced by Mutoh. People bitch about the Tanahashi formula but the Kojima formula is in every single match and does not change. He can also be quite lazy.

Tenzan is perhaps the single most hit and miss wrestler in puroresu history. He has been in his fair share of great matches but ranges from shitty to average normally. He is capable of and has pulled out some masterful performances, usually randomly and out of thin air, every single year since the mid 90s. When he turns that shit on, man, his charm is similar to Kobashi, only Kobashi was so good that he couldn't ever really be an underdog.

I agree with Tanaka being formulaic and not all that.

I really like seeing this new Ishii bandwagon. I wasn't going to upload the Goto IC match but then gaijinpuro went away and it had to be done, I'm pleasantly surprised by the love it has received. He has always been good but nothing has changed about his level of worksmanship since the RIKI Pro days. He just got lost in the shuffle once he joined NJPW, especially after Choshu lost power/left, but his BFF status with Shinsuke has helped him out a lot of late. Him, Wataru, and Honma used to be the perennial jobbers but since Wataru's push flopped and Honma was fired, that bottom barrel level has been scrapped and it seems Ishii is getting some kind of mini reward push and I love it.

Goto is such a frustrating case. He seemed to lose "it" last year, when he switched his style from "Power Technician" to "generic power wrestler #234". It's like he stopped giving a shit and it has shown in almost all of his performances since. He has been a victim of booking, to be fair, as he really needed that win vs. Tanahashi last year. I believe he would have reached the next level with that win and reign, but now he's gone from being the Fourth Hero, set to overtake Makabe as number three, to somewhere in the bottom half of the top ten in kayfabe rankings. His IC reign sucked and it proved he can't carry a match. Goto is a great challenger/underdog, he can be terrific at gaining sympathy when he doesn't have to lead a match, but when he DOES have to call a match, well...

Yujiro will get there with time. He was great as a face and whenever he crosses that line he is very good. His problem was his blandness which his heel turn, and this brilliant playboy gimmick have really helped turn around. When he does eventually about face and is able to drop his plodding control style, I think he'll have his own bandwagon.

Someone once described Naito as "introverted". This is his only problem, to me. He's fucking terrific in almost all regards but it seems like he lacks that final layer of confidence.

NOBODY liked Nakamura in the three or four years before 2009. He had lost confidence since his debut and his in-ring style wasn't getting over. He did not connect with the audience and he was rather like present Goto, to be honest, which is a big reason why I won't ever doubt another wrestler's ability to evolve into something great. He finally gained that confidence toward the end of his title reign and then by late 2010-early 2011, oh boy, drunk-sell Shinsuke came along and it was the best he has ever been. THAT was "Swagsuke" (I gave him that name . Blame Odd Future). He dropped all that in order to be utterly incredible in every single G1 match in 2011 and to be fair, his character had gotten a bit out of hand before then. It slowly came back with this new goofy, loose armed version we see today but it's not the same, and his dropping the flippidy jujigatame and punch spots, and getting too predictable has hurt his 2012. Booking him to lose so many big matches has helped send him from solidified number two to under Makabe and Okada in terms of kayfabe rankings. New fans should really check out his stuff between the 2010 and 2011 G1s. I want to say vs Nagata in the 2011 NJ Cup was a perfect example of his old-new self. His evolution has really been a treat.

The 2012 NJPW bandwagon is delightful to see but 2011 was better overall. This idea that NJPW has improved so staggeringly is a misconception. They've just gotten better coverage, really, but who cares? To be fair, they've added old strong style elements which has improved lower card matches a lot.

Makabe continually improves himself and his slow burn from shit to good worker and fan favourite ichiban is remarkable.

Tanahashi has gotten better this year. He has smartened up and dropped a bunch of bad habits.

Okada has been well protected by good match structure, gimmick, and opponents. He's a very good wrestler and calling his 2012 the best is even acceptable, but any day now he risks becoming overexposed. He admitted to never having seen a Fujinami or Inoki match before, and calling him the prototypical modern wrestler sums him up perfectly. He lacks mid-match psychology but as we, the IWC, only tend to care about finishes, he's the new king. My goodness, can the man sell though and that dropkick is beautiful, every time.
This post was awesome, thank you. I really appreciate your experience.

I really miss the flippy armbar and I miss the straight punch even more. I like this current shinsuke a lot, but I miss the one from his last title reign. I loved that reign and it could have gone as long as possible. In fact, when he dropped the belt, I kinda stopped watching New Japan until this year.

Was 2011 really all that good? The Goto/Tanahashi match seemed like the only one that got MOTY praise, and I kinda thought it was overrated as is. Again, I didn't watch 2011, so I'm just asking why you liked it so much.

I still don't get Makabe yet. I guess I just remember the 2010 crap.

agree on Naito. He is just a little confidence away from being right there with Okada, Tana, and Nakamura. Would you include Suzuki in that list of NJPW's elite?

As much as I bow to your experience, I gotta disagree about Okada's midmatch stuff. I really think his neckwork, while formula, is really good. I love all the variations of 'DID.'
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:02 PM   #5092 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Puro Match/DVD Discussion Thread (NO SPOILERS)

Once again I'll state it:

I liked Nakamura's work before 2009.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:29 PM   #5093 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Puro Match/DVD Discussion Thread (NO SPOILERS)

Fuck trying to upload this Doi/Yoshino match. It's over 400MB so I'm having no luck whatsoever. Apologies go out, Hailsabin1990.

The only two cents I can add to this conversation is that I've seen a few matches from Nakamura. I don't really like anything about him at all. The matches were from like '06-'08 though so maybe he's improved since.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:34 PM   #5094 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Puro Match/DVD Discussion Thread (NO SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Evans 187 View Post
Fuck trying to upload this Doi/Yoshino match. It's over 400MB so I'm having no luck whatsoever. Apologies go out, Hailsabin1990.

The only two cents I can add to this conversation is that I've seen a few matches from Nakamura. I don't really like anything about him at all. The matches were from like '06-'08 though so maybe he's improved since.
No worries.

I'm surprised. I've always been into his work. Well, since the point of about late '08 into '09 is where he really hit his stride. You need to check it out. He's still my favorite on the roster.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:08 AM   #5095 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Puro Match/DVD Discussion Thread (NO SPOILERS)

I was annoyed by his constant attempts at an armbar, far more annoying than the psychology Del Rio applies in his matches. I didn't like his look either, although that doesn't make much difference. Only seen a couple matches against Angle & Tanahashi, so my opinion doesn't mount to much anyway.

Anyone seen any of these Dragon Gate Matches:

Quote:
11.23.06 - Osaka, Japan (Osaka Prefectural Gym)
  1. Ryo Saito & Genki Horiguchi vs. Shingo & Cyber Kong
  2. BxB Hulk, Jushin Liger, Jack Evans & Matt Sydal vs. Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Magnitude Kishiwada & Kevin Steen
  3. CIMA vs. Gamma (Hair vs. Hair)
  4. Susumu Yokosuka vs. Don Fujii (Open The Dream Gate Title Match)

    12.22.06 - Tokyo, Japan (Korakuen Hall)
  5. Gamma vs. Ryo Saito (King of the Gate Semi-Finals)
  6. Masaaki Mochizuki vs. Dick Togo (King of the Gate Semi-Finals)
  7. Don Fujii & Yasushi Kanda vs. BxB Hulk & Jack Evans vs. Susumu Yokosuka & K-ness vs. Genki Horiguchi & Super Shenron (Four Way Tag Team Elimination)
  8. Ryo Saito vs. Masaaki Mochizuki (King of the Gate Finals)

    3.25.07 - Mie, Japan (Tsu City Gym) - MEMORIAL GATE 2007
  9. Matt Sydal vs. Genki Horiguchi (Open The Brave Gate Title Match)
  10. Gamma, Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi vs. CIMA, Ryo Saito & Susumu Yokosuka (Open The Triangle Gate Title Match)
  11. Don Fujii vs. Jushin Liger (Open The Dream Gate Title Match)
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:20 AM   #5096 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Puro Match/DVD Discussion Thread (NO SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! View Post
I liked Nakamura's work before 2009.
I did too. In fact, I find "Swag" Nakamura to be annoying at times. But he's shown that he still has motivation, which is good considering he's been a top guy for so long. He's been smart in that he's been able to change his character and evolve over time.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:53 AM   #5097 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Puro Match/DVD Discussion Thread (NO SPOILERS)

MF83's post was great, and I agree with almost everything apart from the last part about Okada. To me, the reason his finishing runs are so good is because he does work the neck throughout the mid portion of the match, and he does it really well and I enjoy his methodical stuff just as much as his fast paced action packed finishes. One of the reasons I love the guy so much is because he does go into crazy non-stop mode for the last 5 or so minutes of his matches, but he never loses sight of what he did before and so everything works and fits into place perfectly.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:21 AM   #5098 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Puro Match/DVD Discussion Thread (NO SPOILERS)

Great post by MF83. Agreed on 2011 New Japan being even stronger than 2012. There's been more legit MOTYCs this year but I'd say 2011 was even stronger overall. Off the top of my head I think 2010 was even better than 2011 and 2012 too. They've been on a fucking roll for years now, similar to PWG. It's great to see more fans watching the product even if they are for odd reasons. Meltzer giving Tanahashi/Suzuki 5* and calling KOPW one of the best shows ever added a lot of attention along with the international audience being able to buy the show and watch it live rather than for free on youtube like they could before. People are odd in that sense.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:46 PM   #5099 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Puro Match/DVD Discussion Thread (NO SPOILERS)

Like, I said, I didn't watch much from last year, but I agree 2010 was awesome. Nakamura vs. Goto was the shit.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:03 PM   #5100 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Puro Match/DVD Discussion Thread (NO SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Evans 187 View Post
I was annoyed by his constant attempts at an armbar, far more annoying than the psychology Del Rio applies in his matches. I didn't like his look either, although that doesn't make much difference. Only seen a couple matches against Angle & Tanahashi, so my opinion doesn't mount to much anyway.
Match vs Angle wasn't anything special. I mark since it was the right man going over.

Which Tanahashi match was it? I usually love when they duke it out. 2/15/09 match is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek View Post
I did too. In fact, I find "Swag" Nakamura to be annoying at times. But he's shown that he still has motivation, which is good considering he's been a top guy for so long. He's been smart in that he's been able to change his character and evolve over time.
I love the SWAG. It's fitting atm. He's not highlighted as a complete main eventer right now so he's adapted a style to work more fitting of his upper midcard level. His evolution has been lots of fun. While I do want the legit punch to return badly, I like how he decides to change things up. He's only 32. He'll have plenty more to give us. The prospects from him are high. I know he'll be back on top again.
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