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**Sephiroth** · 10-01-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antoniomare007

what i really can't see is why some people call the 03' match their best when 1/20/97 is way better

yo Andy, have you seen Great Sasuke/Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus/Shinjiro Ohtani tag league finals? if so, you know where could i find it?

I know a place...nevermind, he doesn't have it on there for some reason. Maybe a Benoit ban?

**GOD of CUNT** · 10-01-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antoniomare007

yo Andy, have you seen Great Sasuke/Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus/Shinjiro Ohtani tag league finals? if so, you know where could i find it?

Yeah, I've seen it. Watched it not too long ago, actually. No idea if it's online anywhere, though. I watched it on an Eddie Guerrero comp. After D-Man removed it from his site, I haven't seen it online since. I'd upload it (along with plenty of Dick Togo. Motherfuckers need more Dick in their lives), but DVD Shrink won't work on my computer.

EDIT: If it's where I'm thinking, then yeah, all Benoit got scrubbed.

Maxx Hero · 10-01-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy3000

I'll give that comparison 8/10. Not as good as your Dragon Gate/Cops comparison way back when, but pretty apt nonetheless.

I think I can see where this is going, but I would like to here more regardless.

Also, the new DDT Campground wrestling was the greatest hour of WTF am I watching ever.

Yeah1993 · 10-01-2009, 11:10 PM

The site has a no-Benoit thing going?

Anyway, watched RVD Vs Kroffat from 9th June 1995 (same night as you-know-fucking-what) and it was better than anything Van Dam ever did in WWE. Kroffat played the 'even though the Japanese don't like it I'll spit at RVD and push the ref' heel and they did boo him. Great and high-risk.

Whoever's ordered from IVP, do they uselessly clip matches without telling you, or is every clipped match mentioned on the site?

antoniomare007 · 10-02-2009, 12:44 AM

damn, i knew DD could had it but when i didn't find it i never thought on a Benoit ban...silly me.

thanks for the info anyway guys

**GOD of CUNT** · 10-02-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeah1993

The site has a no-Benoit thing going?

Anyway, watched RVD Vs Kroffat from 9th June 1995 (same night as you-know-fucking-what) and it was better than anything Van Dam ever did in WWE. Kroffat played the 'even though the Japanese don't like it I'll spit at RVD and push the ref' heel and they did boo him. Great and high-risk.

Whoever's ordered from IVP, do they uselessly clip matches without telling you, or is every clipped match mentioned on the site?

It's not always stated, but it's not IVP that do the clipping anyway - it's the promotion. Sometimes that's so they can fit it onto TV.

I mean, if you're ordering an episode of Japan TV from, say, June 1997 and there's 8 or 9 matches on it with the disc running 2 hours, you can expect stuff to be chopped up. I've ordered a ton of Japan TV over the years, and a lot of it features clipped up stuff. New Japan always loved to clip their juniors stuff to shit on TV blocks, so you usually had to wait until they were released on commercial tapes before you got full versions (an example is Liger v Ohtani from 2/9/97. Match went 27 minutes and was clipped down to around 20 on TV, but was released in full at some point in the future, either on a TV special or a commercial tape).

If it's a PPV (the actual PPV, not the TV "recap"), then everything will be in full.

If it's a "best of" disc, then some will be clipped, and some will be full. There's a best of Eddie Guerrero disc there that has the full Liger/Black Tiger match from the '96 BOSJ tourney, but it also has a clipped version of the Benoit/Black Tiger match from earlier in the tourney as well.

Best advice I can give is to look at the amout of matches on the disc and compare it to how long the disc runs. 4 matches on a two hour disc is usually a good bet for complete matches. 8 or 9 means something is gonna be clipped.

Btw, download this and watch it:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/n3pr3i

It's Cicloncito Ramirez v Damiancito El Guerrero from CMLL (1/7/97). They're minis, but I watched it this morning and it's probably the best match I've ever seen. I'd put it ahead of 6/3/94 and Flair/Steamboat from Clash VI as the best singles match ever. Don't expect too many people here to agree with that, but it kicks the hinder off Misterio/Psicosis from 9/22/95 and I know you loved that. I've never seen any US pro-wrestler work the mat like these two. Not even CLOSE. Damiancito El Guerrero look just about the best wrestler in the history of anything. So yeah, watch it.

Yeah1993 · 10-02-2009, 04:16 PM

Like NWA, eh?

Quote:

It's Cicloncito Ramirez v Damiancito El Guerrero from CMLL (1/7/97). They're minis, but I watched it this morning and it's probably the best match I've ever seen. I'd put it ahead of 6/3/94 and Flair/Steamboat from Clash VI as the best singles match ever. Don't expect too many people here to agree with that, but it kicks the hinder off Misterio/Psicosis from 9/22/95 and I know you loved that. I've never seen any US pro-wrestler work the mat like these two. Not even CLOSE. Damiancito El Guerrero look just about the best wrestler in the history of anything. So yeah, watch it.

Your pretty much the man for that link. I'm not expecting to agree with you at all as far as 22/9/94, Clash VI and 3/6/94 go, but still looking forward to it.

**-GP-** · 10-02-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy3000

Btw, download this and watch it:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/n3pr3i

It's Cicloncito Ramirez v Damiancito El Guerrero from CMLL (1/7/97). They're minis, but I watched it this morning and it's probably the best match I've ever seen. I'd put it ahead of 6/3/94 and Flair/Steamboat from Clash VI as the best singles match ever. Don't expect too many people here to agree with that, but it kicks the hinder off Misterio/Psicosis from 9/22/95 and I know you loved that. I've never seen any US pro-wrestler work the mat like these two. Not even CLOSE. Damiancito El Guerrero look just about the best wrestler in the history of anything. So yeah, watch it.

Good stuff.

I've always had a thing for the lucha "2 Out of 3 Falls" thing.
Not sure why. Maybe it's because i don't watch lucha very often, or it's because i'm a major submission mark (which work really well with 2/3 falls since you can realistically submit a fall without being done for) but i've always felt it gave a match much more...i'm not sure "legitimacy" is the word i'm looking for here but i'll go with that and hope it makes sense.
Must be why i've always liked "World of Sport" rules too...

Also, Cicloncito (which my non-existent Spanish have me believe is "Little Hurricane") is a kick-ass name.

Also also, that backwards overhead springboard into a 'rana thingy in the first fall...damn...

**GOD of CUNT** · 10-02-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeah1993

Your pretty much the man for that link. I'm not expecting to agree with you at all as far as 22/9/94, Clash VI and 3/6/94 go, but still looking forward to it.

I'm drunk. What's 9/22/94?

Quote:

Originally Posted by -GP-

Good stuff.I've always had a thing for the lucha "2 Out of 3 Falls" thing.
Not sure why. Maybe it's because i don't watch lucha very often, or it's because i'm a major submission mark (which work really well with 2/3 falls since you can realistically submit a fall without being done for) but i've always felt it gave a match much more...i'm not sure "legitimacy" is the word i'm looking for here but i'll go with that and hope it makes sense.
Must be why i've always liked "World of Sport" rules too...

Also, Cicloncito (which my non-existent Spanish have me believe is "Little Hurricane") is a kick-ass name.

Also also, that backwards overhead springboard into a 'rana thingy in the first fall...damn...

Yeah, it's "little hurricane". He's a mini of Ciclon Ramirez. Mascarita Magica is a mini of Mascara Magica. Pierrothito is a mini of Pierroth. They're all minis of a full sized wrestler. Could've explained that better if I wasn't ploughed, but there ya go.

I'll also agree with youn on the mat work point. Lucha mat work, when you find what you know works for you, is sublime.

Here's the link for a trios match from OCtober later in the year (10/3/97), btw. It;s also amazing.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/msasoz

Damiancito and Cicloncito TEAR it up yet again.

Yeah1993 · 10-02-2009, 08:10 PM

That was good, like fucking good, like so fucking good it makes you scared good, like so fiucking damn frightening scary awesomely amazingly good. Whoever doesn't download that should. Bloody now. Best Lucha match I've seen edging out 22/9/95 and EHDSanto/Panther from 9th Apr. 2000. Unfortunately I haven't seen a full EHDS/Octagon Vs LGLocos match, but even the clip I saw was awesome.

I can't name 15 matches I've seen that are better (than Cicloncito/Guerrero). I wouldn't call it better than Clash VI or 3/6/94, but as said I put it one spot above 22/9/95. I've never seen stuff like that. It makes great matches like Sting/Vader, The Rock/Austin and Benoit/HHH/Michaels look like piles of ant crap. My complete bias for Mankind/Michaels and Sayama/Dynamite (23/4/81) is probably the only reason I'd put those two above it as far as ****3/4 go.

I love 2/3 Falls too, the only problem is I can pretty much tell who's going to win the second fall after the first fall finishes, but considering the second fall is ususally around 5 minutes it's not a match-killer or anything.

EDIT: Sorry, I meant 22/9/95, which is Rey Jr/Psicosis. But as I said though I thought Cicloncito/DEGuerrero was better.

Thanks a bundle for that other think. I'll watch that by tomorrow.