Pretty sure it's a bit of both. ROH is losing a ton of money. DVD sales are down an unreal amount, they're running smaller venues and the network their show is on just stopped being part of Time Warner cable packages... I already don't get it on Cablevision.
Beyond that- check a few DVDs from late 04 through 07 to see just how much worse they are currently. I can suggest about 50 if you'd like.
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Okay, I'm relatively new to ROH. My first real taste of being an ROH fan was the HDNet episodes. To me, the first tree were decent, but clearly I was expecting them to get better. As time has gone on I have't watched since episode five, and even that one I skipped most of.
Anyways, for the longest time now I've heard people say how ROH is in a real bad way and that it's having a bad year? Well, is it? Seriously, aside from Jerry Lynn getting the strap, how is it? Maybe it's because it's all new to me, but it's still the best damn wrestling promotion in North America. The amount of talent is unbelievable; Aries, Strong, Danielson (still), Black, Richards, Jacobs - the list goes on. ROH keep churning out the best young talent in the world and it makes for exciting watching. Personally, it's given me a new respect for wrestling. Granted, I can't keep track of it very well, due to the fucked up and hard-to-follow schedule, but still, it looks in pretty great shape to me.
So, what's wrong with ROH? Do you think that it's having a bad year? On paper, it's having a pretty damn good one I'd say.
If you're first exposure to the ROH product is through the TV show on HDnet, I don't think your thinking to badly of ROH. If you were a fan before & were buying DVD's of super shows that ROH got popular on & are given the option of TV tapings with sqaush matches on the card & really one really good match a show. You might not be thinking good things about ROH.
Like you my first consistent exposure to ROH has been on HDnet. I don't think too badly of ROH. I think the sqaush matches are a waste, the ring is too small but you're guarenteed one good match every show for the most part. I appreciate that they are doing something different. Which not every wrestling show on TV can guarentee.
If you're first exposure to the ROH product is through the TV show on HDnet, I don't think your thinking to badly of ROH. If you were a fan before & were buying DVD's of super shows that ROH got popular on & are given the option of TV tapings with sqaush matches on the card & really one really good match a show. You might not be thinking good things about ROH.
Like you my first consistent exposure to ROH has been on HDnet. I don't think too badly of ROH. I think the sqaush matches are a waste, the ring is too small but you're guarenteed one good match every show for the most part. I appreciate that they are doing something different. Which not every wrestling show on TV can guarentee.
It's not as big as WWE's ring, but it's certainly not too small. I've never heard anyone say that ROH's ring is too small.
It's not as big as WWE's ring, but it's certainly not too small. I've never heard anyone say that ROH's ring is too small.
The new canvis they got for the HDNet show has a weird design and does make the ring look smaller. Just being there live I can say that it makes the ring look smaller for some reason. With the HDNet cameras it makes it look small as well so the two together I imagine makes it look even smaller.
The new canvis they got for the HDNet show has a weird design and does make the ring look smaller. Just being there live I can say that it makes the ring look smaller for some reason. With the HDNet cameras it makes it look small as well so the two together I imagine makes it look even smaller.
I see that point, but looking smaller doesn't make it smaller lol.
I don't have exact figures, but my calculations say they're losing five figures a month. Probably around $20-25k. Maybe more.
It's speculation, but you look at the gates, look at the ticket costs and the DVD sales which are maybe one or two thousand per show if I'm generous. Then you take away building costs, wages, production costs, PPV production costs (Which would be pretty high) etc. I'm pretty sure I'm not far off.
I mean, obviously there are other incomes and other outgoings. But I'm sure I'm in the right ballpark, especially with the recent Flair/Hart appearances no doubt costing more than they're worth, plus the ex-WWE stars like D'Lo, Lynn and Grenier probably earning a pretty penny.
I'd have to question your math on ROH's financial status. I'd admit its not good at the moment, but I do think ROH is better off than some of us think at the moment. Look at ROH compared to other indys. PWG, Chikara, NWA, FIP, take your pick, and none of them can be near the money ROH is bringing in. They have hundreds more fans at each show, they sell more merchdise, and they have a wrestling school. If ROH was losing almost a quarter million a year, it probably would have folded a long time ago. They probably made around 50,000-60,000 at yesterdays Manhattan Mayhem show. (not including cost) but with ticket sales, and food, pop, DVDS and everything included. Even a smaller crowds like Detroit in the 600-800 crowd range i can't see ROH losing money on a show. I wouldn't expect renting that venue would be all that expensive. It's not like ROH is in huge arena's.
Plus if ROH was losing money THAT bad, they wouldn't be bringing in high priced guys.
But i do think DVD sales and some towns attendences are down. So that does raise some concern. But thats how i feel. I'd say they are close to breaking even.
Quote:
Originally Posted by superdupersonic
If you watch any of the following -
May 2005
Summer of Punk
Milestone Series
Then you will be wondering why the quality can't be as frequent as it once was.
Since he's only starting watching since the TV series, you'd probably want to explain what is the summer of punk, and the milestone series, and what the shows are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power
Okay, I'm relatively new to ROH. My first real taste of being an ROH fan was the HDNet episodes. To me, the first tree were decent, but clearly I was expecting them to get better. As time has gone on I have't watched since episode five, and even that one I skipped most of.
Anyways, for the longest time now I've heard people say how ROH is in a real bad way and that it's having a bad year? Well, is it? Seriously, aside from Jerry Lynn getting the strap, how is it? Maybe it's because it's all new to me, but it's still the best damn wrestling promotion in North America. The amount of talent is unbelievable; Aries, Strong, Danielson (still), Black, Richards, Jacobs - the list goes on. ROH keep churning out the best young talent in the world and it makes for exciting watching. Personally, it's given me a new respect for wrestling. Granted, I can't keep track of it very well, due to the fucked up and hard-to-follow schedule, but still, it looks in pretty great shape to me.
So, what's wrong with ROH? Do you think that it's having a bad year? On paper, it's having a pretty damn good one I'd say.
Welcome to ROH. I've been wondering, how many new fans the television series is bringing in because i haven't seen very many post from new fans.
To respond to your question, long story short in fall 2008, they changed bookers, and they wanted to go in a different direction to cater to a wider audience, rather than just the die hard wrestling fans. At this point the product was molded differently. You have more DQ's, Countouts, use of students, etc. They put more emphasis on entertainment, and not having every match try and outshine the main event. Some like it, but it seems there is a few die hards, that hate it. Myself, I'm a wrestling fan, and ROH still provides a good show. But it was once a great show. I watch the TV show, but to me it's still all about the DVD shows.
I think the first few shows 09 weren't all that great, but generally ROH doesn't really start for the year until the anniversary show. The June and July shows look good, however i question the long term booking they are planning. I just don't see them doing the long slow build up, to make a match seem, epic.
I see that point, but looking smaller doesn't make it smaller lol.
I think that's AmDrag's point. You know when a ring is right when you've been around and in enough by sight, and it looks like a standard 16, but the canvas does have a funny way of making it seem smaller.
I once worked for a promotion with a 12 ft ring. It just looked like an accident waiting to happen and it was. Someone got hurt almost every show.
I dont think ROH is in the crapper but i definetly don't feel the same about it. I remember in 2005-2007 i couldnt get enough of the shows and ordered them the moment they came out. Now i really don't care as much. Its not the same. I like some of the younger guys coming inlike Kenny King and The Young Bucks, but ROH has already gone past its peak
ROH Is In The Crapper? Really?!
Re: ROH Is In The Crapper? Really?!
