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**PulseGlazer** · 04-17-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taroostyles

There are so many matches that have bad selling that still get high ratings from people, too many to even list.

Hell, HBK/Flair had pretty bad selling and I see tons of people giving it *****.

Plus, I never actually said the selling was "bad". I just agree that it wasn't as good as it should have been.(Need to watch again to fully determine that, but I could tell it wasn't what it could've been)

Some people make a dumb call giving a perfect score to something that isn't near perfect. You want to follow that trend?

**Taroostyles** · 04-17-2008, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PulseGlazer

Some people make a dumb call giving a perfect score to something that isn't near perfect. You want to follow that trend?

I'm not making any kind of claim that Joe/Angle was 5* at all, I just think ****1/4 is atleast pretty fair.

**PulseGlazer** · 04-17-2008, 11:10 PM

I have no real beef with ****. It's about the highest I could see going with any claim at objectivity (honestly I marked for Joe winning. I love Joe), but it's a spectrum usually for just that reason.

**TheUnholyDragon** · 04-17-2008, 11:58 PM

Personally, I gave it **** because I could clearly see Joe dismantling Angle from the beginning and I thought the slow progression from it being almost back and forth to Joe just annihilating him told a pretty good story in and of itself, and showed Joe was clearly the best man to be on top of the company.

Your mileage may vary. It wasn't revolutionary or anything. It was just more or less the best and most cleverly disguised squash in the last few years.

**PulseGlazer** · 04-18-2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUnholyDragon

Personally, I gave it **** because I could clearly see Joe dismantling Angle from the beginning and I thought the slow progression from it being almost back and forth to Joe just annihilating him told a pretty good story in and of itself, and showed Joe was clearly the best man to be on top of the company.

Your mileage may vary. It wasn't revolutionary or anything. It was just more or less the best and most cleverly disguised squash in the last few years.

Agreed on all but Best. Awesome, awesome thought which I totally reserve the right to steal.

Best is King-Donst. Come on.

**TheUnholyDragon** · 04-18-2008, 12:10 AM

I'll be honest here and say I haven't seen King-Donst yet. I have both matches floating about somewhere, but just haven't gotten to them yet.

Right now I'm going through Goodhelmet's MOTYC 2007 8-disc set. That and a couple matches which aren't on there (Go vs. Danielson being most notable) will allow me to form my final 2007 MOTY list.

**McQueen** · 04-18-2008, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUnholyDragon

Right now I'm going through Goodhelmet's MOTYC 2007 8-disc set. That and a couple matches which aren't on there (Go vs. Danielson being most notable) will allow me to form my final 2007 MOTY list.

I'm curious as to what is on that comp, you got a link to the match listing? But yeah no Go/Danielson is a little sad, one of the better matches last year i've seen.

**sirdilznik** · 04-18-2008, 06:56 AM

I saw both of these matches live in Lowell, Massachusetts 4/13 but I wanted to see them on video before making my rating. Here goes:

Lethal Lockdown - ****1/4 - Sweet ass War Games Match. Great build for several of the entrances. Stinger running in last with multiple low blow goodness that got the crowd exploding (when a face can get super positive reaction from a crowd on a super heel move like a super blatant low blow, you know he's over) Craziness on top of the cage. Semi-botch on the dangerous ladder slip on top but it still came off awesome. Super Hot Crowd! (But that's TNA all the time. Best fucking fans in the world. Yeah I said it.) Beer bottle smashin goodness. OK the gore sort of came out of nowhere (which can be good but not really in this case) so it fell short of ****1/2 because of that. Great match. The greatest testament is that this match was something along the lines of 28 minutes and it seemed like 10 super action packed minutes live and 15 super action packed minutes on tape. Wow!

Kurt Angle(c) vs. Samoa Joe - ***** - Yep! That's right go ahead and send the flames my way ( /puts fire-proof suit on ) but this is not only EASILY THE MATCH OF THE YEAR, but also one of the best matches I have seen in a long time. Again I'm waiting for the flames, but this match rivals some of the Misawa/Kobashi and Kobashi/Kawada matches. Yep, that's right, soak it in I've said it. Go ahead and send the flames my way, but here is my full explanation, also take it with a grain of salt because I'm almost as big a MMA fan as I am a Pro Wresling fan. This match was PERFECTION. From the beginning MMA sequence. Being there in person I can tell you those kicks were f'n stiff. The nice double leg takedown by Angle. The quick mat reversals. The brutal Backdrop Driver by Kurt. The sweet ground and pound. The part where Kurt was in Joe's guard throwing punches not so much to hurt him, but to distract him and grabbing at arms while Joe flailed them in the air in defense. Even though Kurt didn't get a single armbar (Cross Arm Breaker) out of that, the dedication to the art in that sequence was amazing. They went away from the sweet MMA style worked shoot just at the right time as the few asshole smarks in the crowds started to try (with limited success) to get the hot crowd turned. The submission reversals on the ground were sweet. The amazing Fig 4 struggle with the almost turns and almost taps. The one nice quick heel rope pull by Angle at the beginning of the Fig 4 that the camera mainly missed (oh well it doesn't ruin the greatness of this amazing match). The sweet ass Judo throw by Joe. The near perfect Ankle Lock sequence with Joe rolling through it but Kurt staying with it, rolling with it. The absolutely PERFECT Joe Pin/Boston Crab sequence with Joe putting his knee in the upper back and Kurt crawling out to the side and using the referee's shirt to pull himself to the ropes. SIMPLY AMAZING!!!. The reversal into the Rear Naked Choke. The multiple reversals into the Cross Face were simly brilliant. The Musle Buster finisher was PURE PERFECTION right down to Joe hooking one leg and stepping over the other on the final pin. I love the Muscle Buster and he did it at just the right moment. In conclusion. Awesome crowd (Which I am proud to say I was a part off screaming my lungs out). Perfect amount of MMA (As a huge MMA fan I could have had with a couple more minutes but they changed over to pure wrestling just in time for the pure wrestling fans). All the little nuances down to a tee. Angle grabbing at armbars while distracting Joe with punches. Joe rolling through looking for a knee bar but Kurt gets to the ropes. Just amazing how well they blended the MMA and the wrestling and they made the transition into pure wrestling in the final half so smooth and still threw in some MMA hints down the line perfectly. The perfect amount of time. A bit of cage usage but not too much. Awesome near falls. Perfect flow. Karen dropping multiple F Bombs which adds 1/4 star on top of what was already *****

I'm a big believer in longer match doesn't necessarily equal better match. You can have a ***** match even if it's only 15 min. This match was the absolutely the perfect length for what it was. This was pretty much perfect in my eyes. Angle haters, Joe haters have at me. Fire away, but don't tell me I didn't explain why I feel the way I do.

**GP_Punk** · 04-18-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUnholyDragon

Right now I'm going through Goodhelmet's MOTYC 2007 8-disc set. That and a couple matches which aren't on there (Go vs. Danielson being most notable) will allow me to form my final 2007 MOTY list.

I'd be interested in that one as well...any details?

**ROH** · 04-18-2008, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Q: Why it deserves anything above ****?
A: Cuz we're not trying to fucking analyze it and are just trying to enjoy it. We don't need to be "oh, Angle didn't sell the back, that was fucking stupid" to enjoy it. Apparently you do tho. So good for you. But quit trying to act like you're so much better than everyone who liked it more thann you. God, this is why you're such a fucking nerd when it comes to ratings and wrestling.

You're waiting for a reason? Maybe nobody cares enough to answer. This is just like what happened with Flair vs. HBK. We're gonna have 40+ pages of people arguing, flaming, and nothing good will come from it.

Dude. Aaron Glazer is a wrestling fan. His goal isn't to analyse matches, it's to enjoy them like everyone else.

The thing with Aaron pointing out those flaws is he's saying, ultimately, what made the match less enjoyable for him. He's saying why it wasn't as enjoyable as it could have been.

It's analysing and enjoying at the same time, really. Not just nerd-like analysis like you're saying.